done.Us brokers need to make a dollar. I'e emailed some Euro brokers, see what pops up,their greedy should find a donor car.
Hi Alan, First off, I'm not knocking your work, I wish I had the ability to do this myself, and it looks great. There is no replica-section per se, but a thread within the Vintage forum where the discussion finds a home. There are several reasons for this, varying per individual, but mostly to keep the forum for what it is intended for, which is info on vintage Ferrari's. The replica-thread has many examples of re-bodied GTE and 250PF coupe's in it, some better than others, as well as some heated discussion about ths topic.. Mind you, if I'd find a truly derelict GTE beyond restoration I would not hesitate to re-body it, but the sacrifycing of relatively good and sometimes good cars to replicate another is hurtful to many an owner of an original, it being the donor or the replicant. The mods appear to disagree with us who requested the thread to be moved, and I for me always like to see good craftsmenship, so it seems the floor is yours! Best, Jack.
May I ask why a donor must be sacrificed? I can only imagine that it's for mold making, and if so, I would think the parts can be reassembled afterwards. Although it would require a different approach, there is technology today that will provide detail measurements of any shape without even touching it - laser. I would think ones opinion on replicas would be strongly influenced by ones ability to afford an original. Naturally, those that have originals don't like the idea while those that will never own an original might see it as an opportunity to experience a dream, if only in their own mind. I for one choose to own original cars, but I must settle for those that I can afford. I dream Ferrari, but own Austin-Healeys. However, a nice looking replica that is reasonably believeable, say a 166 MM, might look nice in my garage. It WILL have a very nice steering wheel woodrim
Count me in guys I love turning scrap into fun. The Maranello comes with usefull equipment Cheers............Alan
Hello Alan, There's even a thread about the Datsun and Fiero fakes. It's called the crappy replica thread and is somewhere down the bottom of this forum in the off topic section. Datsun and Fiero based "Ferraris" are usually called fakes. When a true Ferrari is used as a donor it's usually called replica and if a small part is used to build a complete car that was once destroyed it's usually called a recreation (unless there's enough left of the original car. Then it's called a restoration). And ofcourse there are conversions (making a spider or competition version for example). I think it's a good idea to keep track of replicas. That's why I suggested to move this thread to the designated replica thread. Best regards, Peter p.s. I admire anybody who uses craftsmanship. I only wonder if one should limit this to restoration and refrain from replication. But I understand the arguement of scrap value.
well, what usually happens is that the chassis and drivetrain is retained(with some mods to fit the new body)so the "actual" serial number is no longer associated with its original model ie: a 250gte/330gte will now "be" a GTO or CAL spider or whatever suits the builder/owner has decided they want. it is what it is........... doug
because they arent replica or kits in the regular sense of the term. they take an original old ferrari and transform it into a gto or swb or tr. depending on budget etc this can also include uprating the mechanicals to the correct spec. and they still retain the identity of a ferrari - eg the donor car the best ones are virtually identical to the real thing in every way - they look, sound, feel and perform just like the real deal
I for one have no issue with turning a old heap/wreck into a new bodied car,what is the issue,people have been doing it for years with WO's and pre war Silver Ghosts.
Looks like nice work. I just met a guy with a rusty, "beyond repair" 250 GTE near my office whose future will now likely be a repro. As much as we all love original cars, GTE's aren't historic in any way. The cost of restoration (and the state of this ex-midwest rust-bucket) is simply prohibitive to originality. If a good chassis and drivetrain can find new life as a SWB whose owner beams with joy when he drives it, then happy driving!
The issue I have is that most of them are far from beyond repair at all, they were just cheaper. I can show you photos of perfect bodies that have lost their chassis ... there was no restoration required, the car was complete and driving. Anyway I've got work to do ... Pete
some of those 60s bodies are oh so ugly,bit like some of the pre war Rolls Royce cars,through away a old box body and put on a body that is plesent to the eye.
I don't hear to many people on this forum condemning people like Jim Glickenhouse for his P4/ Enzo creation, or Yushiyuki Hayashi for the 575GTZ. Were they not perfectly good cars before they were rebodied? Personally the Zagato bodied 575 is just superb. Nothing has changed, years ago, one could appoint a coachbuilder from whoever styling turned you on, Ghia,Touring, Zegato, Scaglietti, Vignale, Marazzi, Bertone, take your pick, most of these one off "specials" are worth a fortune today. For what it's worth, I don't care for replica's much, but to rebody a car and improve on it, and do it well maintaining the Ferrari flavour that's something else. MG
I was going to pull the running gear out of my old Boxer and do a replicar group C car. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Hey greg will PM you,broker mate in the UK has found a 250PF that is ideal for turning into a SWB rep,see what you think of the photos,IMO the body is to far gone to keep.
At the time these were produced they were good to look at, and they will be again. Bodystyle and peoples tastes change with the time, so does the taste of people for the old cars. The box bodies came and went and came and went. The currently pleasing replacement may not be so pleasing to the eye tomorrow, and will never be an original again. If one of these is truely beyond repair, go for it. Otherwise, leave it alone.
The Zagato re-bodies of 348 and 550/575 are great, and IMO much in the spirit of Ferrari of the past. Apart from that, the 'donors' were produced in large numbers and nobody will miss the few that were converted. What makes them right in my eye is that they don't copy something that was before, but are originals in their own right. If you want to play, there were 2 or 3 damaged 550's on mobile.de a few weeks ago, perfect candidates for such an endeavor. I'd love to go there, but my pockets aren't deep enough.
its only a re body of damaged,rusted body,cheaper to put a new body on it and spec it to suit a SWB rep.its not as if a 250PF is a rare car.
The problem here largely is that people interested and involved with replicas are the ones that talk about them and create the terminology. "We" in Ferrari circles call Fieros fakes, the people involved with them call them replicas. The ones involved with 250 GTO re-creations call them replicas, the people involved with real cars often call them fakes... Establishing terminology that would suit all people may be an impossible task. Another problem is that it is really difficult to find out what was really done when a certain replica or fake was built. Every GTO-replica out there is usually described as "exact re-creation of a real thing" even if the incorrect body shape alone could be spotted from a mile away. After years - soon decades - of trial and error GTO-replicas are slowly getting better and better and the GTO shown in this thread does actually look quite good. At least it does not instantly fail in the areas that seem to be the hardest to recreate (the proportions of the nose and the flow of roof line from A-posts to rear fenders). With other models, that have not been as popular in the replica industry, it really is a different story. 99% of replicas out there would only fool the people who confuse MR2 with a 348. With around 300 replicas already built this really means there are 2-3 car that really are good ones or "about right" (visually inspected). If we add this to maybe 5-10 good looking GTO-replicas created so far, the replica business is largely wasting good projects converting them into... er... "something". Mechanically it is a nightmare. Many cars are claimed to have been built on a "new chassis". From my experience this could mean anything from a scratch built chassis to a quickly butchered GTE frame. Many replicas have been renumbered, some of them several times. Engines are usually restamped. Some of them use a number belonging to a real car (mostly SWB-replicas) and there really seems to be no way to find out if any original parts were used. In the 80's it was tempting to recreate any serial number that was known to have been destroyed in a racing accident or fire. 2687GT may have been recreated three or four times... most of these cars now carry another number... it really is a mess. How about the replica owners? With about 300 replicas already built, we hardly know anything about them. Most of the replica-owners pretend to be honest about their cars but will anyway claim it is a real thing when confronted by a average show-goer. Opportunity makes a thief, I guess. Everybody wants to be somebody... that's what these cars are all about! I am currectly going through all my replica pics trying to identify all of them and also trying to find out who built each car and when. It is really hard to find out the chassis numbers alone unless a car comes up for a public sale. I don't even dream of finding out the chain of owners, but I do think that it would be important to document these cars for the future. For years I have been planning a replica register but it is really difficult to find the correct way of doing this and there most certainly is not much point if we don't know the full story. The good thing is that I now fully understand why the factory certification process was created; IMO it is largely useless for anything else than 250 GT SWBs, which really come in "every possible shade of grey" some of the "real" cars being 100% fakes and some others being 100% original cars down to every nut and bolt with the majority being "something in between". Me too. I think that if every replica looked the ones built by "albow" here showing real talent - and went by a correct unaltered serial number, replicas could receive more respect. Unfortunately most rebodies are so awful that they should be rebodied and the identities they carry are sinister to say the least. I am quite sure that when all proper donors will soon be used up, the replica industry will start redoing the existing replicas - the bad ones. This is one of the main reasons I think the replicas should be fully documented. Best wishes, Kare
Oh great, soon we will have a threads discussing the accuracy of fakedo restorations??? With every word we make these more legitimate. Please, here at least, draw a bright line, always call what ever they are by the decades old judging standards: they are not GTO, SWB or any other thing, they are bastardized GTEs and they are not eligible for judging OR worthy of discussion. I can buy a "genuine reproduction bronze" from the Franklin Mint, would you imagine any legitimate arts gathering engaging in hours of discussions as to whether its proportions were correct? Do you suppose it would matter to said group if some lesser artist's bronze was destroyed to create that fake? Believe me, I know cars are not art, but a fake is a fake, and in my mind unlike these we are discussing, the Fiero Daytona at least leaves the surviving few donor cars alone. As to the argument that the "donor" is destroyed beyond rebuilding, where in the future will the surviving GTE guys get those same unobtanium parts? A 250 engine hulk is already damn near a king's ransom, and brakes, springs, frame sections and suspension parts all are crucial to maintain those cars. News flash: they don't come from your local Ferrari parts dealer, they come from the breakers or not at all. Without Tom Shaughnessy some huge portion of the pre Fiat era Ferraris would not be on the road today. Who are the numbers? There are about 1/2 of the 474 series II 330s left, barely 40 years since production stopped, the one headlight version there are even less. There are three GTEs models, not just one, even less of each surviving, all of which need a base of drive train spares to continue to survive. And now, after dozens and dozens of destroyed (not rebodied, destroyed) donor cars, we are now beginning to see some we like?? Please... realize to varied bad consequences these "things" are multiplying, and we are legitimizing it. I plead for full stop.
ok , then put the deal togeither.IMO boot,doors,bonnet and the roof line can be sold for parts.Sell of the drum brakes,wheels.Paul will buy the glass and bumpers.Their is also a GTE but he wants to much for it plus its missing its diff.Or buy it and put a 9 inch diff in it. Lets wrap it up tomorrow and buy,they can be shipped with the other Ferrari bits.
