Ok I just got my fuel distributor back from Larry car sat for 7 years and Im finishing up the work on it. gone through entire fuel system and had the car running but was not running very well but it was idleing running ok, Then I ran into a problem with the distributor jaming up so It was gummed up and sent it to Larry at CSI flow for rebuild. Installed it on the car and started to adjust the fuel. Made sure that the sensor plate is set to zero. all new brass injectors. What Is happening is the car will start to run sputter so its trying to run and it will die. I had it going yesterday for a little bit but this was after I unpluged the cold start injector and the WUR The only thing I have really messed with is the sensor plate and the adjustment screw because of the injector change. Now Im wondering because you guys have messed with these more than me does this sound like it is getting to much air or not enough? to much fuel not enough? forgive me Im used to electronic injectors so this is new fun for me. Also when adjusting the screw should I turn it all the way CCW to set it to ZERO or not or am I close and I just need to fine adjust this baby? And does anyone know what the throttle body plate should be set at? It apears like it is almost all the way closed I want to check this even though I had it running before the rebuild it may be choking the air. thanks for any help. I also have my new book on the way Bosch Fuel Injection and Engine Management (Paperback) by Charles O. Probst
Go real easy with your turns on the air fuel mixture. CCW for lean and CW for rich. Larry is a great guy and I have gotten some real good advice from him concerning CIS. Here is what I would do based on what I have learned from him, tested and succeeded in getting to work: Get a CIS tool to measure the fuel pressure. Measure the main pressure while your fuel pump is kicking. To do that, just connect one end of the tool to the cold start valve outlet on the fuel distributor. Read and compare to the specs for what your main pressure should be. If this part is off then you have a problem with either the pump, the filter, the pressure regulator or the accumulator. You can isolate the problem but that's for another thread. Next read the lower chamber pressure. The Bosh fuel distributor has a test outlet for that. What you are looking for is a differential between the upper and lower chamber pressure at the fuel distributor. That fuel pressure differential should be documented in your specs sheet/manual. Typically around .4 bar. If it's too low then you have a lean mixture but if it's too high then you have a rich mixture. Adjusting it properly will require that you access the EHA which is that black little box attached to the fuel distributor. It's really a pressure regulator that is electrically activated and adjusts as the O2 sensor senses changes in your exhaust to compensate. Remember that once you fool with the EHA you will have to go back to the air fuel mixture next to the sensor plate and get the duty cycle back in order. To adjust the EHA, you will have to unplug it but make sure the car is off, cool and battery disconnected. There are two screws that keeps it attached to the fuel distributor; HAVE A RAG handy and right there because gasoline will shoot out for a little bit as loosen the screws. Once the EHA is in your hand remove the center screw which is a really a cover for the inner adjusting allen screw. Go real easy because this screw has fine threads. Again you will have to go CW for a higher differential pressure and CCW for a lower differential pressure. Move the allen screw (3mm) a hair at a time while you go back and forth to test it back in the system. Don't forget to inspect the O rings between the EHA and the fuel distributor, heck have some new ones handy, it's always a good idea. The best way to do all this is to have a scope and a multimeter. I use the multimeter to test the EHA current and the voltage at the Lambda test port. The current at the EHA should be between + - 1mA while the voltage at the Lambda should reflect 50% of the duty cycle. For the latter I really like the scope to get a nicer visual while I adjust the air to fuel mixture. Let us know how you do!
Glad you caught that Drew -- you were going to drive him crazy looking for an EHA Definitely not (it's a multi-turn gizmo). If it will run at all, you're in the right ballpark. Unplugging the WUR (i.e., disabling the internal electric heater) will keep the control pressure low (for a longer time until the engine itself heats the WUR up), which will add richness, so sound like you are lean, but are the rough "mechanical" relationships OK: 1. With the system is pressurized (i.e., engine not running, but the fuel pump running by either "jumping" the fuel pump relay, or unplugging the safety switch and having the key "on"), does the airflow plate have a ~few mm of freeplay from the rest position until it contacts the FD plunger? 2. At the position where the airflow plate lever just contacts the pressurized plunger is the airflow plate just about to exit the cylindrical portion of the funnel and enter the conical portion (allowing some airflow to enter)?
only thing i would add is the basic f/dist setup. i have NEVER mucked with the airflow meter in the 20 years i've been screwing with kjet. never had to. i do know the plate has to be perfectly centered in the hole, not just height. basic setup is this-remove 1 injector line from the f/dist. disconnect safety switch and turn key on. adjust the mixture screw until you see fuel fill the empty hole. it should not spill out-just fill the threads. this is very close to what you will be eventually. 1/2 turn rich or lean at the most. i would also add that if you unplug the wur, then unplug the aux air valve . it too has a heater and will shut off air if left on. after this, check the control pressures, cold and hot. good luck, chuck.
I need to correct myself (because I also wrongly pulled something KE-Jet from memory) -- it's KE-Jet that has the freeplay from the rest position to the pressurized plunger, not K-Jet. Here's the correct method from the Mondial8 WSM for checking the "zero" postion of the airflow metering plate when the system is pressurized: Image Unavailable, Please Login
No, in this case, there seems to be only 1 pin, item 12 (but don't know if other/later models are different or not). They also recommend backing off 1/2 turn once you see the fuel appear at the disconnected port for the rough idle mixture set-up. Image Unavailable, Please Login
When I read his post I said to myself I do not have that part so he must be talking the newer version its all good. I did have it running the other day with the WUR unpluged and the auxilary starting valve. 1. when pressurized they system the airflow plate does not have any free play that I see, if I pull the safety switch the injectors are firing, plug it back on they stop just like its supost to, then when I push on the plate and they fire I feel no free play when I do this I can feel the resistance at the plunger side then when it finally moves the plate drops into the funnel about a half inch or so. the pressure is there and it is keping the plate in place. 2. when It contacts the pressure plunger the plate is just below the area that I centered it up to at zero. But my plate isnt perfectly centered in the funnel. If you are looking at plate the side closest to the fuel manifold it is level at the zero the area on the outboard side towards the fender is slightly below center. It is hard to take a photo of this but when I look at it closely I can see that the plate isnt the same all the way around. But This is where I have had it running, If I have the area of the plate a bit higher on the outboard side it is not running. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
This is correct -- I made a mistake, and corrected myself in post #6. If the "zero" position of the airflow plate seems about right (as shown in the Fig 25 illustration in post #6), the next step would be to follow the instructions shown in the paragraph labeled "Aligning the Fuel Distributor" in the jpeg in post #8: 1. loosen one of the fuel line connections at the fuel distributor, 2. run the fuel pump (with the engine not running), 3. If fuel already continues to come out of the loosened connection (after the inital residual pressure bleeds off), turn the mixture screw CCW until it stops, turn it back CW until fuel appears again, and then turn it CCW 1/2 turn. If no fuel comes out (after the inital residual pressure bleeds off), turn it CW until fuel appears, and then turn it CCW 1/2 turn. This should be roughly close enough to run, and then small adjustments would be made from there when the engine is running as Drew indicated. Don't have any simple advice here as there isn't an easy adjustment for this, and they really don't give a direct "spec" -- although one could infer that because they say the plate could be up to 0.5 mm high, a difference in the two sides of up to 0.5mm might be OK-ish.
Ok guys this is where I am now so ill let it sit a bit and then try to fire it off. Got it so the fuel fills up the hole but doesnt instantly fill to overflow it takes it a bit to get to the top if I leave it on it will eventually spill over but its not overflwoing instantly so I fell I have met this requirement then I gave it 1/2 a turn CCW. So Ill see how it runs after this thanks and ill keep messing withit through out the day.
ok, I got the motor running at idle around 1000 RPM. If I rev the motor it sounds good but when it starts to fall back down its sitting around 3K and doesnt want to fall any more it does after a bit but not like I know it should. Then if I have it running for about a minute it will die on me like it is getting hot and something is telling it to shut down. any ideas? I have a video of it but it may be a bit hard to post on here because Im not sure If I can. jp
I watched the video... this is a USA version, 2v injected car?? If so, check the vacuum line to egr valve....monitor this with a vac guage-an accurate one... remeber the relationship of the idle speed(BIG adj screw), and the flutter on the vac guage needle... as I seem to recall, it requies a 1 settinjg-wioth STABLE needle-flutter is wrong (bar, inch...can't remeber...senility and alll) Ck wsm for these cars, if vac setting of base idle set screw has been buggered, the car will behave EXACTLY as in vid.. good luck out there... ciao! 335s
From your description you changed the injectors and have not had it running since (I saw you had a dristributer problem -which complicates things) but if you have the distributer right, you have to get fuel lines charged with fuel BEFORE you start adjusting mixtures. Birdman has it written up on his site in the cleaning injectors area. Stephen
USA version 2 valve version. But I forgot something, I removed all my emisions equipment including the EGR, But I forgot to plug the hole in the bottom of the manifold so It is sucking air Im working on pluging this up as I type. I hope I can find a plug locally that fits this or ill have to make one. jp
I read that it wasnt that big of a deal to bleed these injectors in another thread, All the air should be run out of these lines by now. I had changed the injectors before I had the problems with the fuel distributor I then had to have it rebuilt. I had it running with the new injectors and then I had issues with the plunger in the fuel distributor it got stuck full open and sent it to larry for rebuild.
This has got to be contributing to your problem in a big way, CIS functionality depends on a 'sealed' system. If the leak is prior to sensor plate, that's one thing. After the plate is a big deal. Plug that hole up & I believe a lot of your troubles will be resolved.
My 81 srartup , idles at a grand, then goes 3 grand then drops back to a grand. Without blipping the throttle does yours attempt to do that? If it does, sounds like one of sensors is faultly or has a bad connection. I know it sounds stupid of me to ask but did move or disconnect any of the connectors. They are fragile being 25 year old plastic. I would check those first. Stephen
You said "the hole in the bottom of the manifold" Air coming into the manifold will definitely make the engine idle much too high. Be sure to re-connect the wire at the wur also.
The plug at the wur is off for initial idle set up and incase it was causing me issues I also dont need it because its not cold here. I know it will make it idle too high as its dumping extra air into the engine and not getting enough gas so it is a lean condition, I removed all the emissions crap and the tube from the bottom of the manifold to the EGR is what made this hole just need a plug I "forgot" about it. But this is why im here to go over step by step. Gas analyzer you got one? maybe I have one on the way maybe I dont but im just trying to get it running a gas analyzer is for fine tunning im not even there yet.
Johnny -- While I appreciate your approach of addressing the "rough" points until you need to get down to the "fine" points, you really should have the WUR internal heater plugged in. The WUR doesn't allow extra air into the engine, it sets the control pressure which affects the amount of fuel entering the engine for a given amount of air passing over the airflow metering plate. You want the WUR in the "hot" condition before making the manual mixture tweak. If you don't have it, I've tried to upload the Mondial8/QV WSM here: http://www.mediafire.com/file/toow1lw1ymw/Mondial8qv_workshop_281-83.pdf Section D is a must read for you IMO.
