good idea their is a few rough 330/365s getting around that are prime for parting out. You still got those 6 carbs that you got of the red car?
Few of the boys had a go about us parting out cars and the reps. My response they were only OHOS now turned into works of art plus I'm a broker its my income. ps and my car(s)
bold claim that MOST of them were far from beyond repair can you back that up ? (btw you missed out the most important word in qualifying the statement - "economical")
Many pretty good and honest cars have been chopped up for replicas. Besides the description "beyond economical repair" is a bad joke; outside the world of Ferrari and some other high end cars it is pretty difficult to restore a car and make a profit. I find it very unfortunate that this eventual luxury with some rare high end models has become a burden for "lesser" cars and it is now thought to be a fully acceptable reason for scrapping any 2+2 as soon as there is a little rust in the underbody and a few bits and pieces are missing. For me "beyond economical repair" is often equivalent to "I really cannot afford this car". Instead of turning these cars into mongrels, I would store them for the future or find a buyer who can afford them.
It seems that the word "fake" when used is meant to be derogitory in a condescending way, sounding rather arrogant or "above all that". Now replica is a kinder word, usually used when someone doesnt want to immediately make an insulting statement
As said i have no issue with turning a uneconomical resto into a replicar. I get more concerned with all the W O Bentley cars that have been turned into VP LeMans reps. Thoughts on turning a tired Daytona into a Group1v replicar?
Kare,I, for one, would love to see a data base for replicas. No matter which side of the "high horse" fence one finds one's self on, it seems to me that such a listing would provide valuable info to those who concern themselves with such things, including potential buyers. I don't feel that such an effort would necessarily legitimize (or not) such cars; it would merely provide research data without passing judgement on whether or not these cars are a good thing or not. I'd like to include comments on the quality of the craftmanship, but that's probably getting into dangerous territory! Good luck!
the only issue would be the people whom trawl these threads,big timing themselves and causing issues for the owners re legal and the terms the cars are called.
I'd rather go and buy me a real sportscar than try to turn a rust bucket into something it really isn't. Besides a good GTO re-creation just won't happen, it seems.
what do you do with this. Friend has a Maserati 5000,body is a shocker,trim missing a big $ resto.His idea is to turn it into a 450S!
Amen brother. But that said, there are myriad ways to skin this issue and the shades of gray are too varied to count: - Is a new (different) body on an original chassis a fake? - Isn't a new (original style) body on an original chassis a re-creation as well? - What if a re-body was done "in period" (ie, 50's or 60's)? - At what point does a car become a fake? Original chassis and motor but different body? New chassis and body but original drivetrain? What about original parts from different cars on an original chassis but a recreated rear-end, original axles, repro body, original interior bits... ...And so forth. Ultimately, it's my opinion that what one does with one's own property is their business and they should do so to maximize their enjoyment. But originality is both cool and, for some cars, vital to their historic value. As a vintage enthusiast, I always tip my hat to originality. But as a car nut, I also tip my hat to well-done recreations (or "fakes") when the MO is experiential quality (fun). Each of us judges the issue differently. But it's tough to deny that the owner of the handmade GTO recreations featured on this thread will have a very good time.
Where are all these replicas, if they are so much fun? After following many many replicas for many many years, I think many are built/bought to fill a dream. Then it seems to turn out that these cars are not good for much: Where do you go? Who do you drive with? How do you feel after lying that "Sure, it is a real thing!" - and realizing that the car really does not have much in common with a real one? That it drives like ****, because the chop-job chassis wasn't prepared properly and may break at any minute. Then you get mocked for being a poser and start seeing those smiles... and start to wonder if it was wise to scrap the original car in the first place... Not exactly my definition for fun, but what do I know... And then the car gets quickly sold or forgotten into back of the garage. If they were so much fun, we would see more of them. There are more than 300 fake vintage Ferraris out there! Where are these cars? Where are these people? Having soooo much fun with their cars on a desert island, maybe?
Some are ,down here the reps are most welcome in historic racing and club runs.I've driven a few reps,yea some are rubbish so are plenty of older Ferrari cars.
It has been a good 6 months since we once again beat this topic to death, so here goes. As usual, my hat is off the Pete (PSK), Bayer and Kare for leading the charge to stop the carnage. My view is that this is another chassis lost. No question that there is a market for replicas. But the desire for these things fuels the carnage of period production Ferraris that are in pretty decent condition. When does it stop? It will truly be a shame when there are only 100 GTEs (all concours condition) left in the world because everyone who wanted the "(GTO, TR59, 250 TR, fill in the blank) experience" chopped up a GTE in need of TLC. If a car can be saved, then save it. The production numbers for the Lussos and the PF Coupes are practically the same (351 and 353) and no one is chopping up Lussos. The best guess on remaining PF Coupes is less than 200. If you must own a replica GTO, I would beg you to search the market for one that has already been made - I believe that Gerald Roush has estimated that there are approximately 5 times more replica GTOs (built on Ferrari chassis/drivetrain) than real ones (39) - and that guess is at least 5 years old. "It's still a Ferrari, right?" NO, it's no longer the Ferrari that Ferrari SpA made. And Ferrari never took an older model of Ferrari and re-bodied it to replicate another older Ferrari. Another issue usually raised at some point in this debate is that "the owner has the right to do whatever he wants w/ his vintage Ferrari." This is completely and legally correct and entirely besides the point. If the Mona Lisa were privately owned, that owner would have the absolute right to paint a mustache on her which of course would be an abomination. The carnage will continue as long as the the buyers expect them to be made from real Ferraris for the "full Ferrari experience." Unless its donor looked like poor 0989 or 1713 below (PF Coupes), then I think it's a shame. Frankly, the car on the left might even be viable. Restoring an old 2+2 rarely, if ever, makes "economic" sense. But people w/ vintage Ferrari passion do it all the time. Visit www.tomyang.net and you'll meet a lot of them. My "high five" goes to the guy who takes the rusty GTE and returns it to its original glory, and not into something it never was. The solution here is to get Ferrari to start making sanctioned replicas through the Classiche program. There is clearly a great demand. Hell, Ferrari is already making 250 Colombo motors and drivetrains as we speak. And they'll probably even make it for you so that the second gear synchro gives out every 7000 miles, just like the real ones . . . but that will cost extra. Albow, I respect your craftsmanship; there aren't too many people in this world who do what you do as well as you apparently do it. Your Alfa is going to be wicked/amazing. Photos owned by Marcel Massini. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Actually, a few Lussos were made into GTO's (like No. 5319???). The Lusso chassis makes the ideal donor due to the Watts linkage and double sprung rear suspension. These are features unique to the Lusso and the GTO. john
Allthough I'm not a big fan of replicas, and think that anyone that tries to pass one off as a real car should be shot, I think we still have to be realistic. The costs of rstoration, relative to the value of the item after restoration has been compleated, has to be considred. I can fully understand someone taking a rotting hulk of a 250GTE with half the parts missing, and turning it into a replica GTO.
soooooo, what body are you going to put on your Lusso restoration, John?? Don't make me come over there and discipline you!
with some cars its the cost of the resto that turns it into a rep. Or a parts bin of motors/gearbox ect what to do with it.
Again some of you just don't get this replica thing do you . I'm so tired of having to state this: Jim and Yushiyuki took a CURRENT production Ferrari and made their own cars out of them. There is no issue here, because Ferrari are still making these cars and thus parts are a plenty. These replicas are made out of 60's cars that have little or no spares and have acheived classic status. That is the issue, and hence why PERIOD rebodies are perfectly fine, because back then these cars also were current production Ferraris. Best Pete
