WTB: 996 Twin Turbo | FerrariChat

WTB: 996 Twin Turbo

Discussion in 'Porsche' started by Texas Forever, Mar 22, 2009.

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  1. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
    85,600
    Texas!
    I really do need a new drug. It looks like the deal of the decade are 996 TTs. Frankly, those of you who are willing to pay MORE for a 993 than a 996 are just plain silly. Moreover, while I'm sure the 997 turbos are great cars, they will cost you 2x or 3x more than a 996.

    I once owned a 2001 C4 and a 2002 TT. They both were truly great cars. Porsche's engineering almost overcame the laws of physics.

    Here's an example of what I'm looking for:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=400038474280

    Disclaimer: I don't know anything about this car or this dealership. I'm just using this as an example.

    Here are the specifics:

    2004 TT Cab Silver/Black 11k miles with a tip.

    That's right. I want a tip. Why? Number one: this car will be a DD. Number two: my wife may need to drive it in a pinch (I'm actually planning on getting down to two cars). Number three: because I'll be buying used, I don't want someone else's sloppy seconds if they didn't know how to shift. Number four: there is a cool secret about tips that almost nobody knows. If you blip the throttle fast, it will automatically downshift. If you blip the throttle fast and harder, it will downshift twice. This is great for left-footed braking track work.

    So why don't I buy this eBay car? Simple, I'd don't have the patience to deal with morons anymore. The listing price is $60k, which is $10k to $15k too high. The Manheim MMR auction number for a 2004 TT Cab with 31590 miles is $36,300. If I give a $2,700 profit to the dealer (which I believe is generous for being a broker), my initial market price is $39,000. If I add an additional $3,000 for the low mileage and knock off $1,000 for the tip, I'm a buyer for an unknown car at $41,000. If the car has verifiable service records and proves to be a known car, I'd be willing to pay up to, say, $45,000 for this car.

    But, I no longer have the patience that I used to have. I just don't have the energy or the desire. If I can't reach a deal in 30 minutes, I'm done. There are lots of cars out there, and time is own my side. Frankly speaking, I don't have the jones that I used to have for sports cars. Moreover, this specific car will be a $35k car in one year. After losing $50k depreciation in a Ferrari over five years, I have learned my lesson. No more stupid money cars for me.

    So, if you know someone that has a good 996 TT they want to sell and are realistic in their selling price, feel free to send me a PM. I don't really care about mileage or even accident history. One lesson I learned from Gerald Roush of Ferrari Market Letter fame is the only thing that counts is the current condition of the car, not its past condition. Besides, Porsche's build quality far exceeds Ferrari. A high mileage car doesn't brother me if it has been maintained.

    Dale

    PS If you know of a really cool TT, but it has a stick, I'd like to know about it anyway. Also can anyone say GT3? How about GT2? Plus, I'm a slut for speed yellow. Yeah, I know that Porsches have to be silver, but the yellow looks so good on these cars.
     
  2. sir-t

    sir-t Karting

    Sep 24, 2006
    175
    D/A/CH
    $36.5k for TT cab? The market here is starting at €60k for halfway decent cars.
     
  3. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
    85,600
    Texas!
    That's the Manheim wholesale auction number. It is what it is.

    One reason that these cars are so cheap is that Porsche imported way too many into the USA. It was not unusual to see a $25k first-year depreciation hair cut just from driving the car off the lot.

    Another reason is that Porsche nuts pay too much attention to what other people think. Come on. Why would anyone pay more for a 993 turbo than a 996, when the 996 is clearly a much better car. Headlights? Huh? Interiors? Since when did Porsches have pretty interiors? If you want a nice interior, buy a Maser. I'm not kidding.

    Like I said. A 996 TT has got to be the deal of the decade for a daily driver sports car.

    Dale
     
  4. mcg

    mcg Formula Junior

    Jul 26, 2004
    293
    Full Name:
    Andy
    #4 mcg, Mar 22, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2009
    Your target price may be difficult to achieve currently but in this environment don't be afraid to make what may be considered an insultingly low offer.

    As I read MMR results for January 2009 the 4 transactions with an average of 31,590 miles for a 2004 turbo cabriolet nationwide show a figure of $43,688.

    Last 30 days MMR transactions for 2004 Turbo Cabriolet:

    2/12/09 $52,200 12,202 mi.
    3/03/09 $50,500 26,582 mi.
    3/17/09 $49,000 23,235 mi
     
  5. RS man

    RS man Formula Junior

    Nov 30, 2008
    334
    Scotland
    Not sure why Porsche owner would pay too much attention to what others think - if so one would buy the newer 996TT which as you say is a bargain compared to 993TT. However, if like me you love the 993 shape and what it stands for then you will buy the 993 and not the 996. No matter which version of the 996 will not compare with the 993. They made less of it and feels altogether more solid - it will keep its value more than the 996. Some do not like the interior of the 993 but I would say that the 996 interior looks really awful (997 is better but I still do not like it). Buy what you think is best for you and don't worry about what others think.
    - that is the right decision. I always laugh when people talk about resale values and colours - buy what you like and not for the next person!

    Harry
     
  6. sir-t

    sir-t Karting

    Sep 24, 2006
    175
    D/A/CH
    Ok, Porsche in Europe is usually the least depreciating brand considered, that was my point. I am aware that prices in US are burning in high flames due to the economic situation. I am searching for a 965 turbo 3.6S and thats the market to look at.

    I think a lot of guys on this forum will disagree with you on the 993/996 issue. I even think it is hard to compare the aircooled to the watercooled models at all because so much has changed. The "old" 911's deliver lots more of the feeling what actually makes a Porsche. The 996 is the better car, no doubt, more usable, service bills cut in half etc. but its also less spectacular. Maybe try a 993 or even better: a 964 turbo (only 3.6) and you will understand the $$ difference.

    -Tob
     
  7. ralfabco

    ralfabco Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 1, 2002
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    Itamar Ben-Gvir
    Hey Dale,

    No doubt any pre 05 996 TT is a bargain - when priced well. I have a friend, that paid 20K over MSRP, when they first came out.


    My guess, the best bargain anywhere, is a 1993-1994 600SL Mercedes. A few years later, MB began to sell junk. It should not be too much trouble, to find a good one of these cars. I don't like automatics, but it is a car to consider as a different alternative dd. An excellent 6.0 liter V-12, can be found for between 15/20K.
     
  8. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
    85,600
    Texas!
    I'm showing:

    03/17/09 DFW Lease $49,000 23,235 Above GRAY 6GT A Yes
    03/03/09 DAL DLRS Lease $50,500 26,582 Above SILVER 6GT 6 No
    01/21/09 CADE Lease $41,000 42,941 Avg MAROON 6G 6 Yes
    01/20/09 STATESVL Lease $50,500 29,980 Above GREY 6G 6 No
    01/15/09 RIVRSIDE Lease $48,000 29,936 Above BLACK 6G 6 Yes
    01/15/09 RIVRSIDE Lease $44,500 28,502 Avg GRAY 6G A Yes
    01/15/09 RIVRSIDE Regular $41,250 24,979 Avg BLACK 6G A Yes

    Weird that the 2/12 sale doesn't show up.

    At any rate, you might be right. I forgot that Spring is right around the corner. You know what they say, "Buy in the Fall. Sell in the Spring." So I might have to bump my price to around $50k.

    Still, a 2004 996 TT Cab for $50k is one hell of a deal. In the Ferrari world, $50k would probably get you a beat up 1995 355. Plus, you can put 15k miles a year on a Porsche without throwing a dollar a mile out the window like you would with a Ferrari. Don't ask me how I know this to be true.

    Dale
     
  9. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
    85,600
    Texas!
    Thanks Ralph. Haven't talked in a long time. You still have the Boxer? No MB for me this time around I'm looking for a sports car.

    Dale
     
  10. shawsan

    shawsan Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2004
    1,090
    Vancouver, Canada
    The good, maybe great, news about the 996TT is threefold. First, prices have fallen soooo much, its a great buy. Second, Porsche mechanics will tell you its a 'great car', and drivers will confirm its an excellent grand tourer. Third, criticism regarding its cushier, more driver-removed feel, can be offset by selective mods, especially the suspension (bilstein coil overs), a short shift, and sports cats. And then, of course, it's easy to mod for more HP/TQ. Besides the air vs. water cooled differences surrounding the 993/996TT debate, there are other differences that help keep the 993TT on a pedestal. One is that it's about as fast as a stock 996TT, thus loosing little glory in that department. Another is that it feels more solid, immediate, smaller, lighter, more go-kart like. The 996TT feels bigger. I just can't let my 993TT go for these and other reasons (its modded up to 500HP). But my 996TT, a Ruf R turbo brings equal thrills in all departments, mainly because the aforementioned mods return the car to a rawer state than stock.
     
  11. ralfabco

    ralfabco Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 1, 2002
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    Itamar Ben-Gvir

    Hey Dale,


    Box is gone. Sold to a F.C. member last year. whew.

    eh, you can find a Shark driver for the 60's.

    Don't forget to buy a scarf with that sports car.


    Ciao
    Ralph
     
  12. henryr

    henryr Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Nov 10, 2003
    22,476
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    Juan Sánchez Villa-L
    2004 TT cabs are in the $40's ????? damn. what are the hardtops trading for ? 2001 must be in the 30's.....
     
  13. yoda

    yoda F1 Rookie

    Sep 27, 2004
    2,598
    UT
    Migher mileage coupes are going for under $40. I have couple friends buying the new Subaru STI for around $35-36k, but if I had that kind of cash I'd definitely be shopping for a 996TT manual coupe.
     
  14. mfennell70

    mfennell70 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    621
    Middletown, NJ
    #14 mfennell70, Mar 23, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2009
    A dealer buying at Manheim is not being a broker. He's taking delivery of a vehicle, transporting it to his place of business, (hopefully) cleaning it up, marketing it, etc. Theoretically, he's adding some value.

    FWIW, a good friend of mine bought a very nice '01 coupe with 30k miles for $45.9k two months ago. Two owner car which was always maintained at the local dealer (the service manager printed out 10 pages of service records for him). We tossed a used B&B exhaust on it and called it good. The price was probably a couple thousand strong but everything else about the deal worked.
     
  15. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
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    HUBBSTER
    I found a 2001 996 TT manual trans w sunroof, 44,000 miles

    last owner added a GT2 body and wing and a rollbar, all of which I like but I think can be discounted

    Kelly Blue Book says in stock form its worth $46k

    Any clue what this is worth ?

    I would offer something in the $30s

    Thanks
     
  16. 330GT2+2

    330GT2+2 Formula Junior

    Nov 19, 2005
    584
    Texas
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    330gt2+2
    #16 330GT2+2, Mar 29, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    what he said.....excuse the lousy pics, but at 52k miles with original clutch, motor, belts (HaHa), interior parts, and a ass to die for. can't go watercooled! but gotta love the prices!! but I have seen 0-62 times posted at 3.7 for 993 and 3.9 for 996..
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  17. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
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    Texas!
    03/26/09 RIVRSIDE Regular $34,000 54,292 Avg BLACK 6G M Yes
    03/26/09 RIVRSIDE Regular $24,750 97,978 Below RED 6G M Yes
    03/12/09 RIVRSIDE Regular $33,500 48,167 Avg BLACK 6G M Yes
    02/25/09 CADE Regular $30,750 54,181 Avg BLACK 6G M Yes
    02/19/09 MANHEIM Regular $38,250 30,330 Above GRAY 6G 6 Yes
    02/19/09 ALBUQUE Lease $33,000 60,051 Avg SILVER 6GT A Yes

    So, you're right on da money. Ain't it wonderful? Here is a car that will blow the doors off almost anything, for $30k+.

    Dale


     
  18. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
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    Congrats on your car. Here is what I don't understand. Please don't take this personally, but what's the beef about the interiors on a 996? I have NEVER paid any attention to the interior on a Porsche. Just remember what Luigi said, "Whatch in da rear view a mirror a no count."

    Same is true for interiors.

    Dale
     
  19. darth550

    darth550 Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 14, 2003
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    Ping AJS328
     
  20. 330GT2+2

    330GT2+2 Formula Junior

    Nov 19, 2005
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    330gt2+2
    Hello Dr. the water cooled crowd seems to think the 993 interior is a bit antiquated..but to me it's classic Porsche...when the water came, so did the "Japlike" interior, and a bit of a sell-out (IMHO...)
     
  21. Fpassion

    Fpassion Formula Junior

    Jun 1, 2005
    599
    Are those seats in your 993 TT factory?

    The 993 took 300 man hours to build where as the 996 150 just some FYI :)
     
  22. ryalex

    ryalex Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 6, 2003
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    #22 ryalex, Apr 1, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2009
    How many robot hours though? Were they sourcing more complete or modular components?

    It's a stat that alone doesn't really say a whole lot about the car. Maybe that's because of a reorganized assembly line.

    (I prefer 993 too though)
     
  23. 330GT2+2

    330GT2+2 Formula Junior

    Nov 19, 2005
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    330gt2+2
    recarros after the fact...tough as nails..50k miles and look great!
     
  24. henryr

    henryr Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Nov 10, 2003
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    im told the 2005 997's wholesale in the mid 30's.......
     
  25. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
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    This was going to be my next post. Is a 2005 997 C2 a better driver than a 996 TT?

    Dale
     

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