Manual Ferraris: Gone for Good?

interesting take on an otherwise frequently asked question.

clearly, since the very high end of ferrari (even starting at the ones normal millionaires can afford) is and has been for awhile F1, i would say you are right, the manual will soon be gone. perhaps not even by choice, but by emissions requirements.

DSG is clearly "better" in all respects except driver involvement.

 

I have a 3 pedal F430 and I love going thru the gears. My day driver is an M5 with SMG. I took the M5 out a 20 mile back road the other day and pulling paddles is just not the same. Yes, the SMG shifts way faster but no enjoyment of making the right downshifts and going thru the gears when acclerating. I was wishing for a manuel on that road

 

My $0.02
I just cant imagine having a non 3 pedal car. Its not about the performance for me - its simply how involving my driving experience is.
My Ferrari is truly a weekend car and I want my drive to be as engaging as possible. DSG and F1 are awesome - but just not as involving.

Shashi

 

Frank- Gone on the 612, Scuderia, and 16M. Gone earlier on the Challenge Stradale. Rarer than hen's teeth on the 599. Wonder what happens with the f430 replacement?

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

I was a manual advocate before driving an F1 Ferrari. I will agree not an engaging. But man, nothing like hearing the exhaust/engine note during spirited downshifts. Just be prepared for routine clutch changes.

I did hear from the dealer that at some time man trans might be speical order only.

 

Is there some reason you would not hear the same thing in a 3-pedal car? I think not. And no routine clutch changes. You just made may case for the non-F1 solution.

Gary

 

Why is it that no one ever asks "will there ever be a day that you can't get a manual in a Nissan?"

When you answer that question, you can see why things are headed the way they are. In five years, the chances of anyone actually using a Manual box to learn on would be next to zero. Emissions and gas mileage requirements will eventually regulate manuals out of existence because advanced software will make each shift optimized. Next, someone will come up with the idea that manuals are actually DANGEROUS because, much like cell phones, you have to take your hand off the wheel (oh, the horror!) and outlaw them.

If someone has never used a manual box and then goes to buy a $300,000 Ferrari, he's going to want the auto. That's just a plain and simple fact. If all Ferrari's were offered TODAY only with Manual boxes, their sales would be LESS. They know it and that's why they pursue it. They are just following public demand. 90% of all F430's are sold with F-1's. That means that 9 times out of 10, people paid MORE for an F-1 just to not have to shift.

You can't blame Ferrari for that any more that you can't blame them that no cars come with Weber carbs anymore.

 

+ 1 That is the way it is, and going to be. That is why the superfast go fast to superfast 2 and is going to be out done by the DSG faster smoother. I'm a stick guy, if I was racing , paddles.

 

Re: Nissan
Well.. that's nearly the case for Mercedes-Benz! I think manual is only available on the entry-level C-Classes.

New Lamborghinis are also only available with 6MT if special ordered.

I assume Ferrari will go down that road as well.
I just hope they DO offer that special order choice.

I have never rowed through a gated shifter, but I am a die-hard manual fan and look forward to the day where I'll get my own gated 6MT.

 

Probably depends on what the competition does. If F think they're losing business to the "other guys" who are still offering a stick then they'll probably continue.

 

eh? aren't manuals more popular than automatics in europe?

 

that's actually not true, because ferrari doesn't just let you order a manual at will. THEY determine how many they want to sell, regardless of demand. now, i'm sure if it were a free for all you wouldn't see (say) 50% manual but the 90% number cannot be taken to be what the consumer actually wants. many people will buy the ferrari they can get.

it's like you're saying that in 2009 everyone started preferring (demanding) carbon brakes and the extra year warranty.

 

As bad as I hate it...I agree with this. In the future, we will likely hear things like: "why in the hell would you want to have to deal with changing gears...I don't see how you could ever get used to doing that...I can't beleive that people used to actually want that...that's crazy."

You know it's coming, and it really bums me out too.

 

I have a gut feeling that ordering a manual shifter is going to be an option for which Ferrari will command maybe the same amount of an F1 model, I can see them doing this very easily.

 

'

That's HOGWASH. People order F-1 boxes because they want them. You think someone's going to plunk down $300K on a car that has a gearbox they don't want? Nonsense. If people wanted them, they would order them and Ferrari would be HAPPY to make them (and get the sale).

I can prove it:

1) If you were right and there was this "invisible" demand for manual cars from owners who somehow were denied a manual at time of ordering, the used car market would have manuals go NUTS with price. Because, all those "unfullfilled" people would be grabbing those "impossible to order" manuals up in the used market. That clearly is not happening. You don't see people spending crazy money when a 6 speed goes up for sale. Its just another F430 in price. There is no price jump because of demand. And, you don't see them suddenly snapped up as soon as they go on sale. There are plenty of 6 speeds sitting on Ebay for months just like F-1's.

2) Another proof that people want F-1's over manuals is that they are actually more expensive than manuals and yet they still outsell them. If manuals were more expensive, then you could make the arguement that Ferrari is intentionally "punishing" people to buy them by keeping the price low. But, as a buyer can actually save money by buying a manual and people still buy an F-1 is just anothr way the market shows that the F-1 has VALUE to the consumer vs a manual.

3) Proof number 3: Everyone knows that sales are down because of the economy. If there was some kind of "manipulated" market going on, then wouldn't Ferrari make it well known that there is not more manual restrictions to increase immediate sales. I mean, if there is such a pent up demand as you say of some 40% of owners being disappointed, the best thing you can do is to open the floodgates of restriction and attract more customers. Is that happening? Ummmm... no. So, either Ferrari is stupid to not suddenly allow 6 speeds to be made or they just like losing money. We know it's not the latter so the fact is, it would make no difference from what they are currently doing.

I will agree with you that the CCM brakes was an obvious way for them to raise sales and margins. That's why they went standard. And, it is probably true that an F-1 makes them more money than manuals. But, that does not mean that the F-1 is "forced" on the market. People like it so they buy it.

Next you're going to tell me that the reason why there are so many RED cars made is that Ferrari insists you have to buy it that way....Ya, that's it -- Red paint is cheap so let's keep pushing red on those naive buyers and make more money!

 

bd- You are correct. Ferrari was actually surprised at the demand for the F1 gearbox on the 355s with partial implementation of how the F1 shifter should work, and especially with demand on the 360 and 575M, where digital throttles allowed full implementation of F1. Anybody who does not understand that is playing Ostrich.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Sad but true. Demand really cranked up when paddles were first offered.

Back to the subjest. The factory says a 6 speed stick will be offered in the California though not at first. I doubt very many people will choose it over the 7 speed dual clutch setup and the price might very well be close to the same. Regardless, the days of manuals are numbered and the 430 will be the last model with a meaningful number of stick shifts around. Whether or not these cars (one of which sits in my garage) are viewed as dinosaurs or desirables remains to be seen.

Dave

 

Anyway some owners have had to buy an F1 because they couldn't get a manual, but those are a small number. When I bought the 360 I was forced to buy the F1, when I got on the 430 list I said that I wanted a six speed manual and the next thing the dealer said was, "perfect because the first six speed manual spot is all yours and if you want a F1 then you're going to get one in about three years"... The whole list for F1 was about full and I think that I was the first to get a manual!!!

 

Not yet, but in the future the 360s and F430s non F1 will have a cult following.

 

there has been talk that (in future cars) Lamborghini will offer 6 speeds as special orders only, and that they will cost the same if not more than whatever paddle system the new car has. I think you might see Ferrari go down the same path.

 

That happened to me as well, but the second guy for a manual waited two years. The dealer called the 3rd guy and offered him paddles and he took it rather than wait. I think our dealer only sold 3 or 4 stick shift coupes total.

Dave