F430 6 spd manual transmission compared to other sports cars?

For those of you with 6 speed manual transmissions, how would you compare them to other sports cars? For example, how do they compare to the Porsche 911 (997 model) and the Audi R8? How heavy is the clutch, how smooth is the throw and the engagement of the shift lever, how does it perform when cold? Any particular highlights or problems?

 

the ferrari gearbox has a nice engagement IMHO (some like a silkier engagement but not me) but the shift mechanism is more romantic than functional due to the external gate. throws could be shorter. like most performance transmissions, it works better after warming up.

clutch is about medium. just heavy enough so you know you're operating it. not nearly heavy enough to make you tired.

sorry, i can't compare to a 997 or R8. but compared to any other car i've driven, on the street it's a lot more fun but on the track it's terrible, only because it's so slow and you have to really be conscious of what you're doing. then again, it may just be that i don't have enough track time in the ferrari yet.

i'm speaking strictly of the f430. dunno about the 360.

 

I had a 6 speed 360 for a few years, and a six speed 430 for two years as well. I found both to be a blast to drive, and never felt the 6 speed slowed me down significantly when driving quickly (although I know for a fact I would be faster driving an F1 - however for me, it isn't about lap times). Very easy to heel and toe in both cars too.

I found the 360 and 430 a little tricky to drive smoothly from first to second when driving slow, but easy to drive when you were on it and keeping the revs up and shifting quickly. Easy to drive in all the other gears too. Clutch felt like a good balanced sports car clutch, not sure how to compare (I have a Cayman S, which has a much stiffer clutch than a stock Boxster, about the same as a 911, Ferrari was in the vicinity). The 360 had a very sensitive throttle, so you actually had to keep your foot in it a little while shifting if you weren't shifting super fast. The 430 was the opposite, had to lift off the throttle carefully when shifting to avoid over-revs when you put in the clutch. At least for me.

The clutch was a little tricky coming off a dead stop in the 430, had to balance it just right pulling away from a stop, but it wasn't that hard to get used to. I drove it for a few hours heading up to the race track in a huge traffic jam, and having the six speed and clutch wasn't an issue at all. (And when it cleared up and we hit some mountain roads, it was awesome)

I loved every minute of every drive in both of those cars, and shifting was a pleasure. The gate never bothered me, in fact I really like it.

On the race track on the 430, shifting was so much fun, I was having the time of my life doing heel/toe downshifts, and working through the gears upshifting on the straights.

For various reasons, I just sold the 430, but there's a Ferrari in my future for sure. For now I've got the Cayman S and will be picking up a Gallardo with a 6 speed next week (bought it Friday, but it is getting a service before I pick it up). The Gallardo six speed is very easy to drive, feels similar to the Porsche actually, except for coming off the line on the clutch - also a bit tricky to get the engagement right (although I've only driven it a total of 30 minutes or so). I haven't figured out how to do smooth downshifts at speed in the Lambo, or heel/toe yet (it has pretty awful pedals compared to the Ferrari) - in both Ferraris I was downshifting and doing heel/toe the minute I got in the car.

-- Gordie

 

I have owned a 360, and a 430 gearshift cars, and I also own a 997 (with a shortshift kit), and have driven a gearshift R8, though the Ferrari's are not as smooth as a 997, I always enjoyed driving them. I bought a larger a heavier gearshift know (I still have it, waiting for the next gearshift Ferrari) from a sponsor of the board, I always felt t made my shifts faster. The clutch s a tad heavier in a Ferrari but nothing you really notice.

 

Compared to my old 997 GT3 (non-assisted clutch/short throw shifter), the 430's clutch and shifter require significantly less effort. The clutch is very nice, IMO. It has weight without being heavy, and the car pulls away nicely without clutch chatter. The 430's not difficult to drive smoothly, but with such a light flywheel the rpms do drop quickly between shifts, so for seamless up-shifts you either have to shift quickly or blip the throttle a little in between. Down-shifts are fantastic, the light flywheel and responsive engine give super fast throttle blips (and they sound fantastic).

The shifter works pretty well overall, but it works best when the car's driven aggressively. The shift linkage is very direct, there are no rubber bushings to absorb vibration so you feel more connected to the transmission. The shift throw isn't short, but it isn't too long either. Moving the shifter left-right is a little heavy, but you quickly get used to it. A gated shifter has a unique feel.. some like it, others don't. It does require some effort to navigate, but it's rewarding too. If I had one wish, it would be shifter-stops, they'd give the shifter a nice riffle-bolt feel.

My car's only minor annoyance.. when up-shifting in the 4K-6K rpm range, the 1 - 2 shift can be notchy/balky even when warm. I sometimes feel the second gear syncro engage.. it's not a full grind, more like a short chirp. Over 6K rpm (or under 4K) the 1 - 2 shift is smooth, no issues. And I never have problems getting into second gear (or any gear) when cold.

Compared to "normal" sports cars (not track biased specials like the GT3), the 430's clutch is very comparable.. no surprises. The gated shifter will require some adjustment, but it's worth it. Just look at the thing, it's beautiful.

 

Interesting comments on the revs dropping - that's exactly how my 360 felt. On the 430 I had, the revs didn't do that, in fact, they kind of did the opposite, so I had to make sure to lift while shifting to be smooth (unless I was shifting at high RPM with a lot of throttle).

I wonder if that can be adjusted somehow.

Anyway, I also forgot to mention that I loved the way the gated shifter self centered with a big spring - some people asked me how I knew where to put the shifter (laterally) since it had a gate, but it was easy - push to the left for 1 and 2, no side pressure for 3 and 4 (and it would self center), push slightly to the right for 5 and 6. The shifter required a bit of effort, not too much though - it just made it feel solid and tight.

For me, both my 360 and 430 were a bit reticent to go into 2nd gear when cold, other people have mentioned this. No big deal, it was fine once warmed up.

The dealer also had to adjust the shifter cables in both cars (or something that controlled the lateral adjustment). When it gets out of adjustment, it is hard to get into 2nd gear, but it is easily and quickly adjusted and then it shifts great.

-- Gordie

 

I drive a 996, 997S and my F430 very often and I don't even think of what I'm doing while shifting. The F430 is very easy to drive, I find the clutch very light and the stick is second nature for me. There's no way in hell that I would consider owning a 360 or 430 in F1, I had a 360F1 and it just loses some of the Ferrari appeal for me, besides if there is ever a Ferrari poseur you know he owns a F1

 

My car's an '07, maybe Ferrari programed in some rpm float for certain model years. Many newer manual cars have some rev-float programed in because it's better for emissions purposes.

I had my shift cables checked, they were adjusted properly. The dealer's shop foreman told me that the factory builds all the transmissions with tight clearances for the F1 application. As we all know, most cars are F1's. For the manual cars, they install the transmissions that check out with the loosest clearances (while still being within spec, I assume). He said that's why the manual shifts the way it does, it's tight. Some shift better/easier than others.

 

Since R is to the left of 2nd gear, I've wondered if it there's a possibility of mis-shifting into R instead of 2nd if you're down shifting from 3rd to 2nd because of the gated shifter?

 

Not a chance, for R you have to really go out of your way to reach it, then press down so the shifter goes into gear. I had a 328GTS and a Testarossa, also a Gallardo and had driven a 308GTS for the first time at 15 at it was never an issue.

 

Mine does this too, but also the first Ferrari I drove a 308 was the same way, my 328gts was the same and so it was the Gallardo, but on the other hand the Testarossa wasn't like this. There was an article about this on older V8 Ferraris on Forza magazine and there they advise to do what I have always done, to avoid the 1st to 2nd shift when cold so go 1st to 3rd instead.

My car drops the revs quickly, but this is due to the flywheel so this is the way it is, just like a Porsche Carrera GT or GT3RS...

 

I have not driven a R8 or even a 997 but the 430 shifter is not as smooth as my previous NSXs, 300ZX or even my C6 Corvette. The 430's shifter has fairly long throws, very clunky sounding when you shift into second or third, and I get a rattle in the shifter when I go into third if I don't get it into the gate all the way, so I have to be very conscientious when shifting into third all the time. But the shifter seems to be much smoother if you're shifting at 6000 rpms rather than at 3-4K rpms for some reason. The clutch is not hard at all to get used to but the shifter could be better, maybe it's because of the iconic gate. Even with these negative comments I still would much rather have a manual over F1 and, in fact, I would probably not have gotten a 430 if the F1 was only available. Actually though, the shifter on the 430 isn't that bad, just something you need to get used to. But if you just drove an NSX then got into a 6-spd manual 430 you would definitely notice a big difference. I think the NSX has one of the best shifters of all the manual transmission cars I've owned, and I've had quite a few.

 

Testaco, what are the best practices for shifting from 1st to 3rd? I assume you have to get up to 6,000+ RPMs, but do you then let go of the throttle and engage the clutch, shift, then switch back to the throttle? I can't imagine 1st to 3rd being a quick shift.

 

Testaco might have other advice, but I think this was in response to my comment it was hard to shift 1 to 2 when the car was cold. In that case, you don't want to be driving fast anyway - the car is warming up. In this case, I would keep it below 4k RPMs and not give it much throttle. The car is easy to shift from 1 to 3, I actually shift 1 to 3 in just about every car I own when going slow in traffic anyway. You don't even have to think about it, just pull it out of first, relax your grip so the shifter centers itself, and push it into 3rd. I do it in my Cayman and Elise as well as the Ferrari while warming up or going slow.

-- Gordie

 

There's enough torque, when cold I shift 1st to 3rd at about 2700RPMs, I lift the throttle completely to engage the shift, I just shift like I always do and it's not a slow shift and remember the car is cold.

 

My car doesn't feel like that, anyone else has the same characteristics on their F430 manuals?

 

I typically shift my old M5 from 1st to 4th. The 430 doesn't have as much torque period, and especially low down, and furthermore I like the sound, so I'll always go 1-2...

 

I just past 1000mi/1600km in my manual spider.

Everything on the shift works correctly for me, any RPM, temperature, etc.

The feeling is pretty bad. My benchmark is my old Supra, which magazine testers said they'd shift up and down on highways just because it was so enjoyable. In comparison I've had short drives in S2000 that seemed better yet. My M5 has what is probably supposed to be the most "luxury-feel" of any stick ever, very smooth and accurate but almost doesn't feel like its attached to real machinery.

Compared to these, the F430 does definitely feel like its hooked to machinery, which is good. However the feeling is pretty bad. I don't know whether its audible or just a feel, but its squeeky when pushed hard/fast.

I also think despite being a bad manual, its still lightyears better than any F1 at least for me.

 

IIRC, the shop foreman told me the flywheel was like 9 pounds, that's very light (I don't know what the whole clutch/flywheel assembly weighs). I believe him. Besides the quick throttle response/quick rpm drop after closing the throttle, when turning off the motor the revolutions come to a stop almost instantly.. another sign of a light flywheel. A normal "heavy" flywheel has greater inertia and wants to keep turning, while a light flywheel more quickly returns to rest. This affords greater engine braking, too. When lifting off the gas at speed, the car slows down/reacts more quickly. Weight transfers forward more quickly, so I assume that's good for balancing the handling with the throttle, etc..

The lack of heavy crankshaft counterweights must contribute to the overall effect, as well. How much, I don't know.

 

Gordie -

You have a PM.

Gary