F40 fuel tanks - 17 years later

garage queens are pretty on the outside but ugly on the inside
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Mike

When you replace that make sure to use ethanol resistant rubber like Goodyear Hysunite as the new fuels are very destructive to regular rubber. You may also want to replace your fuel lines with similar stuff.

Best

PS. Although not very PC you may also want to add a small touch, 2% of Go Kart Racing oil to your gas as modern gas doesn't have the same Lubricating properties as the older stuff and that Pump will be a lot happier.

 

Been there, done that.

Jim you are right about the rubber but they are special molded pieces. There are several of them and what they have is what you get.

I have often considered going to inline pumps outside of the tank and hide them like a European version and just get away from the submerged pumps. Just use that contraption that holds the pump for a pickup.

Could be done in a way to all look stock.

 

do a search for ernie's 348 fuel pump rebuild. Yours looks the same and probably has similar parts.

 

That's a very good idea.

Best

 

Thanks for the pics Mike, very informative.

 

Thank goodness the USA F40s have aluminum tanks. Thanks for sharing...

 

All the same stuff.

 

hmm.. I search for those terms and all I get is your post? I'll keep trying ...
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Thanks for posting your photos.. again not something seen very often.

Im guessing this thread:

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=224988

 

I just replaced the fuel bladder in my 1998 F50. The tank was dated 1996, so 13 years old roughly. The tanks and foam inserts came out looking as good as new and the foam showed zero signs of disintegration. I must say I thought it was total overkill and I will think twice about it next time around.

 

Many thanks for your experiences - I shall get mine checked out before replacing. I have very recently been in contact with ATL and they are in the process of manufacturing a replacement cell for the F50 which should retail at c£3600 , they are planning on giving it a 5yr life plus a further 2 yr extension period if inspected.

 

Here it is mate.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=224988&page=4

 

The original tank seems to be made by an Italian company called Cocoon. I have been told that ATL had replacement tanks for the F50; but I decided that I wanted a dealer invoice for an "important" safety service for the sake of the cars history. The service cost just under $20k Australian all up, circa 30% more than an independent could have done it for. The quality of "workmanship" and attention to detail was nothing short of ABYSMAL. The large floor panel under the F50 engine has a mixture of short and long mounting screws. The floor had been previously marked "long screw" and "short screw" in marker pen where the respective screws were used. Despite this, the "highly skilled, factory trained experts" at the local Ferrari dealer mixed everything up, using long and short at random and even leaving some out entirely. No biggie you think? Well they mounted a long screw where a short one was meant to go and it was forced into a coolant pipe. Elsewhere they made the wrong screw "fit" by using three or 4 washers to space it out. Elsewhere they marked the floor by forcing a screw/washer into a mounting hole that was too small for the washer. It goes on; but you get the idea......... You have to wonder how they went with the difficult bits of the job if this is how they did the easy bits!
I am getting the whole job checked again by an independent.

One further thing to consider before you get it done is that the tank is not as safety critical as it is in an F40. In the F50, the tank is actually in a cavity within the carbonfibre tub itself, rather than outboard with the engine/wheels etc as in the F40. If you have an accident in your F50 that is big enough to get through the carbonfibre tub and into the tank, it's likely that you are dead anyway!

 

All that it is waiting on is to find an insurance company willing to cover the project. The molds are all drawn up in CAD for the intank components needed, the fuel filler collars on various models and the new hose is sitting on the shelf that is redesigned for todays fuel....heck, I even designed it with a Nomex covering on it! I have the damn hose and cant sell or use it.....albeit it has been in use on my Ferguson tractor for a year now.

Meetings today and tomorrow with insurance company reps will answer the question for good as to weather or not I am willing to follow this through to its completion, all it takes is money.

Two plus years of research has gone into this fuel vs rubber battle and both the engineers and myself have complete faith in our fix. The technology being used has been proven trouble free for 24 years now, that good enough for me but not the insurance companies questioned so far.

 

I've always heard about the issues with F40 tanks. Its great to see some pics of it. Thanks for sharing.

 

Also, as I understand it, there is a fuel line that runs between the two tanks. I don't have a picture of that but I can imagine its in need of replacement too. Seems like a real fire hazard. I can only imagine what a very low miles car that has been sitting around for a long time must be like; personally I'd be afraid to drive it if it looks anything like mine. I'm very lucky that David Helms takes the time and effort to look at these things! I didn't tell him to do it, he just does it. But he knows I like my car in tip top shape.

Thanks very much

Thanks Jim I'll look into that.

 

I'm not sure that the widow of the FCHATTER who burned to death in a Ferrari SuperCar that crashed hard and didn't have bladders would agree with you.

Mike

A system is only as good as it's weakest link and rubber that can't withstand modern fuel is a very weak link. Your concerns on the crossover line is a good one. Firstly Dave knows what he doing and may want to think about Brian's idea. IMO that rubber piece holding the pump is sketchy.

Fuel Bladders/Cells are MUCH safer than aluminium tanks and if you're going tracking I'd consider inserting bladders into the tanks which isn't hard to do and will make the system much safer. Remoting the pumps to a safer location and using modern fittings and lines are no big deal; we've done it several times on various cars.

I'd also fit a high volume on board fire system if you already don't have one.

Best

 

Brian Crall set me up with a very nice install of a 10lb bottle, with 5 nozzles in the engine bay and 1 at the fuse box. When I first got the car I remember you telling me this, and I've heard of stories of F40's burning to the ground. I was a bit skeptical/naive at the time, I wanted to keep the car original, but I did it anyway, and glad I did. Fast forward a few years and having dealt with dripping fuel injectors, overheating cats and now cracked fuel hoses and I can see why ...

So is there anything I can do in the off months when the car sits. Obviously driving it is a good thing, but in Reno/Tahoe thats just not possible from November through March. From my Alaska years I was always told to keep the tanks full, now I'm wondering if I shouldn't drain the tanks instead? Or just fill them with different fuel like sunoco race gas?

Otherwise I'll just plan on replacing them every time I do belts, but its a PITA/$$$ removing the engine and all.

 

We have begun using fuel stabilisers over the winter and it seems to help. In our new shop we've installed an in ground exhaust removal system and now start and fully warm up every car we have every three weeks.

The gumming up/rubber destruction/ injector clogging/ pump melting ability of the PC fuels is staggering.
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Scott, I thought aero-sekur spa was the oem supplier for F50 fuel tanks. I contacted them last fall, and they identified themselves as such...and were also willing to supply an F50 tank with foam baffles. Could it be possible that there were two sources for such a limited number of cars ?

 

There is no need to modify the design if the right compounds are used in the tank, there are advantages to the in-tank pump design when the ancillary parts are properly made.

Flip side of that argument is I do agree with you on bladder cells if the car is driven competitively. I have had cells dissolve (big name in the USA) at 1 month from the 10 yr mark and empty race fuel on the shop floor overnight and I have a cell from my Can Am car that is still holding fuel to this day albeit not in use any longer. Not all cells are created equal, choose wisely and do not push the expiration dates!

 

Are the proper compound pieces you're making going to be available to other's at some point?

Best

 

I agree totally that it varies from car-to-car, and the life that the individual components and cars have had.

Im not surprised with your findings...

 

Exactly.