Winter storage question

as i continue my OCD madness re my new dino...

when in storage over the winter, should the Dino be in a heated garage? or regular uninsulated is fine? it'll be in upstate NY, so obviously brisk...

and if not heated, what kinds of things should one do to the car, before storing it away?

thanks all!

phil

 

Rule of thumb: Constant temps and humidity, and clean fresh fluids. Cold can be good, but below the freezing point of water is generally too cold - water expansion working aginst the contraction of everything else in nature. Cyclic 10 below zero on 30+ year old plastic / rubber is not optimum. I'd look up some info on museum conditions. I think 45-55 %RH, and 50-75 deg F sounds right. What would be really interesting is what is used at the Ferrari Museum? I'd expect the HVAC controls are set to care for the cars more than the visitors. I put humidity gages all over to monitor conditions as part of my OCD .

BTW, I've heard of pulling the plugs, and putting a TBLSPN of oil in each cylinder, then tunrning over with plugs out to coat internals with oil, then there are these dessicant plugs you screw into the plug holes to keep moisture under control. I just have a dehumidifier running on a timer, and call it good.
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Put a fuel stabilizer additive in the tank, drive for a few miles to circulate it into the carburettors and then top off the tank prior to storing.

The fuel stabilizer will prevent varnish from forming in the carbs
The topped off fuel tank reduces the potential for condensation to form from the air space inside the gas tank.

I've also sprayed Marvels Mystery oil in the cylinders as a storage prevention but after reading posts on Ferrari chat I'm also concerned about the transaxle bearings and surfaces gaining rust. I have driven my Dino on a dry, very cold December day just to circulate the engine, transaxle oils and move the brake pistons before letting it sit out winter for a few more months.

Scott

 

How far upstate is "upstate"? I'm north of the Thruway, on the south shore of Lake Ontario. Fred

 

Here is a time proven procedure used by a friend of mine who has stored a 1964 330gt in an unheated garage in Montana, since new, and only logged 3K miles on the car. Start the car and run to hot 4 times a year. New oil every year, and new coolant every other year. Treat leather every other year. The brake fluid has never been changed. Stabelizer in the fuel, and keep the battery disconnected. The battery has been replaced only once. Thats it.

 

He should change the brake fluid at least every couple of years. It will absorb water over time and pit his cylinders.

 

I don't think a guy thats put 3k miles on his car in 45 years is very worried about the brakes.

 

Ha! True, might as well store it in the basement or attic.

 

I would also pull the battery and put it on a trickle charger.

I personally would not use the plug desiccant method mentioned above for just a winter storage, I have used those but it was on a motor I was putting to sleep for several years.

I am of the belief that our Dino's like to be driven, I would personally NOT start it during its storage, I think its worse to start and idle until warm than just wait until you can do a proper warm up by driving. When you sit idling, you don't get everything hot and you move moisture around. For example, I doubt that by idling a few minutes you would get the exhaust hot, all you would do is create a rusty exhaust system since it would not get hot enough to evaporate the moisture. I think you are worse off by starting the car and idling it, especially a Dino which tends to run rich anyway, bet it would not be hard to foul plugs.

I don't believe in storing a car with the suspension unloaded, so of course you will flat spot the tires so you should move the car a few feet every month (no need to start it).

For a winter, pull the battery and trickle it, change the oil before storage, maybe if its going to be a long winter fog the motor (special spray oil that you shoot into the carbs while running) but I would not for just a few months. In a garage I ASSUME you wont need to worry about freezing but I would check the anti-freeze anyway not for freezing but for its overall condition regarding anti-corrosion, if any doubt to its age, I would change it.

Count the days until its back on the road

 

thanks mike...i guess my BIG question is do i need to have a heated garage? -at the moment, it's neither heated nor insulated..since it's in woodstock, NY, i can expect at least several months when it's going to be pretty bloody cold...i was thinking of spending a few bucks to update the garage, but i won't bother if it doesn't have to be heated, etc...

 

Your garage seos not need to be heated. Make sure you have antifreeze for 30 below zero, and you won't have anything to worry about. I've had many cars sit over very cold winters without heat. I even kept and XKE under a tarp over winter for about ten years. One year I didn't have good antifreeze in it and kept a trouble light under it until it warmed up outside and I could start the car. The car ran fine for years after that.

 

I agree, it does not have to be heated as long as your antifreeze is good, if its going to get that cold. I am in S. Calif. and my garage is heated but that is because I work in it and I like warmth.

Heat in a garage can bring other issues like moisture depending on what you are using to heat the garage with. Cold wont cause rust so the Dino will be fine, its moisture that you need to worry about you don't want a damp environment which I imagine you would not have in that extreme cold. I used to heat with propane and found it put out moisture, I piped in natural gas and a forced air heater and I can work in the garage no matter how cold it is outside, we do get down to the high 40s/low 50s sometimes you know

 

Crazy - this is an inanimate object. It doesn't care whether its cold or hot outside. Make sure there is antifreeze, and use a trickle charger on a dime-store timer to go on 8 hours a day. That's it. I would not spend a nickle. It will not make a difference. Unless, that is, your wife thinks your crazy over this inanimate object and makes you sleep in the garage.

Condensation in the crankcase? We should tell Obama and create an industry to capture the drinkable water that forms in our crankcases each winter. Poppycock. Has anyone ever had a partially torn-down engine sitting on a stand over the winter? Did it rust before your eyes? Has anyone seen an engine fail for lack of changing the oil every year??? What's the matter with last years oil? Perhaps, when the odometer turns 400,000 miles, I might wish I had changed the oil once or twice more, but not in a Dino, with 4,000 miles a decade! Gas in the oil? It's lighter. It will float and evaporate. You won't see it anyway. This changing the oil stuff is nothing but a plot by the oil industry to make money. Your money. I guess it feels good and all that, kind of like when the car runs better after you change the oil and wash it. Spray oil into the cylinders? Have you ever taking an engine apart after sitting in the corner of the garage for 3 years? There's plenty of oil on the cylinder walls, and crankshaft, and everywhere else. If it all went away I wouldn't get so dirty.

(Tongue in cheek - but true)

Jim S.

 

You need to drive your Dino more...I average 8,000 miles a year on mine. John Corbani and I did about the same mileage over the years, last year was a low year for me, I only put on 5,300 miles but I had deaths in the family, house remodeling, moved to a new house, built a garage (big one) and generally was too busy to enjoy life. 4,000 miles a decade is why bother owning the car range...

I saw you said you were talking with your tongue in cheek but not sure you were joking about the miles.

I change the oil 3 times a year but that is because I put the miles on it Now back to the subject, these cars rust, moisture control is important, not in the crankcase, that moisture just needs a good drive.

 

Mike - I'm with you on your admonition concerning miles. And yes, I do drive a few more miles in my Ferrari. The trouble is I have three of them to split the miles between, and then there is the Apline A110, and the VW 23 Window. They don't make a 5-sided coin to flip each morning. Not that I can afford all of these cars. It's a good thing I bought them 30 years ago. And since I have owned one for 30 years (1978), and the other two for an average of 10 years, I chuckle (based on experience) at the attention many give to things like changing oil, and garage humidifiers. Yes, I live in a warm climate, but use to live in Boston when I purchased my first. Didn't heat the garage. No humidifier. Still own the car. Restored it a few years back just to make things right. No rust.

Glad you put miles on your car. I don't have anywhere to go, and have developed a guilty conscience about driving for the heck of it (you know, Earth's resources, and the pollution, and the like). But I get a vicarious thrill over hearing others drive their cars. Enjoy them while you can. Health issues can curb one's enthusiasm. Now I just like to tinker with them, build an engine now and then, build a wire harness, change a clutch, etc. My pleasure comes from working on them, not driving them. Kind of like a watchmaker...the challenge is in putting them back together correctly, not in setting the time.

I still wonder about my Lexus...now going on 150,000 miles. Engine runs great. Change the oil when I think of it...which is infrequent. I still think this frequent-oil-change thing is a great scam. (Tongue only partially in cheek). And the warm-up in the morning? Start my Lexus, drive it away. Never sit more than the time it takes to put on the seatbelt. Keeps on running. Do you think its the oil????

Jim S.

 

Don't know if its the oil but a Alpine and a Dino seems to me like the perfect garage, I notice my Dino gets fewer miles as the motor gets worn because of the cost but I still drive the daylights out of it.

 

Mike - have you experienced mileage related repair costs? This is a real question (no tongue in cheek). Short of tires, and the important 7,500 mile valve shim adjustment, I have experienced no wear-related costs in driving the cars. Indeed, they probably cost less to maintain the more one drives the car (carbs stay tuned, rubber degrades less, seals stay tight, etc.).

When looking at the big picture, I suspect that most of us do not drive our cars sufficient miles to generate wear-related costs. Most of the expenditures I read about on F-Chat are related to, and forgive me for this, out collective attempts to make things better or original. For example, many have attacked changing suspension bushings (myself included). An expensive proposition. Does the car drive/handle poorly to begin with? Or is the rubber cracked on the visible but non-working, non-important surface? Are the suspension members in need of repair...or paint.

Our financial assault on these cars, in my opinion, is driven by man's (and this is gender specific) age-old, unending, irrational desire to tinker. This is a hobby, not a necessity.

Winter storage, and the dollars proposed by some to accomplish it, is another example.

(Yes, a cold garage will lead to slow cranking owing to viscous oil. However, a trickle-charged battery should overcome the cranking requirements, and once started and idled, the viscosity will achieve the normal range).

Jim S.

 

Yes I have, some was wear AND damage by previous owner and some just plain worn out parts. My distributor was butchered by the previous owner and I got some new *used but new to me* parts to rebuild the distributor, that worked for about 6,000 miles but then it plain gave up. So while it got worn by me it was damaged to begin with, a friend and I rebuilt it using as many new parts as I could find and his distributor machine, been fine ever since. But I also lived only 2 miles from John Corbani who used his Dino regularly, so he thought me to yearly lube the distributor weights to keep the wear down to a minimum.

Gearbox broke 2nd month I had the car, broke a shift fork, swap'd out with another gearbox, no problems since (about 35,000 miles ago)

I had a starter go out on me which I think is fine considering the age, had it rebuilt and its been fine but I plan on putting in a gear reduction one soon.

Of course I wore out the exhaust but again it was not in good shape when I got the car.

The worst for me was that the Fiat Dino has knock-offs (which I love) and I wore out the splines on the rear, they were really beyond my financial ability to replace on a whim and I drove on them for a long time, loud "clicks" every time I took off and quite a bit of slop. They are the same as a Ferrari 365 so very expensive to me, $2,500 for the rear and really should do the front at the same time for $4+k. That is really the only wear that I have caused with mileage, they were fine 30,000 miles ago.

Brake pads are getting thin again but so is the rotor this time around, have new ones for the summer driving season ready to put in. Oh yeah, new knock-off splines will go on at the same time

So while the above went out on my watch I really consider that most of the damage was done before I purchased the car and I just finished it off. Lets face it the car is getting old and Fiat's were not known for their owners being very big on preventive or even proper maintenance.

I agree that the car is really reliable and luckily I have a friend who works on exotics a lot just a 100 miles from me and I had John Corbani practically next door, he really was responsible for me driving the car as much as I do, he believed that the car gets better with use and I believe it also. I actually have gone 2 years (about 15,000 miles) without having the reset the valve clearance, checked it and it was fine 2 years running. Points seem to wear quickly but that is cheap and I have experimented with a optical setup.

Have not touched my carbs in over a year now, check the points/timing every so often and drive it. Worst I have is a few oil leaks that look like too much work to fix but makes my car look British (Its ok, it parks next to 2 Brit cars in the garage)

It certainly has been what I would consider reasonable for a previously abused car and considering how many miles I put on it. I have 2 British cars that I am restoring and I hope they are as reliable as my Dino, I would be very happy if they were. Might not be as reliable as my Honda S2000 but the Dino looks MUCH BETTER and sounds GREAT !