US transcontinential speed records/old Navy records ?

Hi ProRallyCoDriver

This wikipedia page might be a good place to start -- it looks like there are a few sources to pull info from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcontinental_air_speed_record.


Good luck!

 

If true your dad is in good company. Some big names on that list and some unlikely aircraft too.

I wonder if any Navy sources might be of help or the Tail Hook Assn? How about Guiness book archives?

Good luck with the search.

 

Dave- At first, I could not think of any Navy fighter of that era that had the range to fly non-stop from CA to the East Coast, especially a two seater, even if external tanks were used. The McDonnell F2H Banshee had a range of 1500 nm, so I guess with a strong enough tailwind, it would be possible to stretch it to ~2000 nm. I have seen jet stream winds in excess of 150 knots, and that would add about 1/3 more range to a 450 ktas aircraft and give a ground speed of 600 knots. Easy to see why that would have broken a record. The Grumman F9F Panther was the other candidate, but its legs were shorter (1100 nm), and it only had a single engine. The Banshee and Panther haad straight wings, used tip tanks and were from that era. Both were single seaters.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

He may have made a fuel stop. Dont forget I think it was Hughes who made the first record non stop run in a Connie. It wasnt all that fast but being non stop did it. The time period he is talking about I suppose it could have been taking the record away from Hughes and might have been possible with a fuel stop in a jet.

Or am I AFU?

Didn't Glen make fuel stop(s) in the F86?

 

Maybe a little off topic, but if I remember right the first fighter non-stop coast to coast might have been a twin Mustang?

With it's speed, even the jets of the day might have had trouble matching it if you had to stop for fuel.

 

Dave - welcome to FChat
1st, sorry about your fathers fate, my condolences.

Not going to be too much help, but I hope it turns out to have been a McDonnell Banshee; an uncle of mine was the head of design on the aircraft. He later designed ICBM's for Aerojet General/General Dynamics. I'll ask some family members if they recall anything relating to xc records for that aircraft. ('getting on' 2nd gen now; don't hold out much hope ;-)


Good luck!

Tritone

 

Brian- Hard to say. This is also during the very early stages of aerial refueling, but I do not think the Banshee had that capability. We started using KB-29s and KB-50s during this time period, followed soon by the KC-97, but the Navy has always stuck with drogue and probe vs the AF's boom system, and many of the early tankers did not have that capability.

A fuel stop using an overhead approach and ignoring the 250 KIAS FAA restriction below 10,000', which we did routinely, would probably cost about 30-45 minutes including the very slow climb back to altitude of these underpowered early jets. So it may have been possible. 600 KGS would make the 2000 nm in about 3 hrs, 20 mins. Add in the stop and that is still humming along pretty good. Four hours would give an average velocity of 500 knots, or 575 mph.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

I think you are right and I think it was Yeager that did it. I think that is the one on display at Wright Pat.

God I 'd love to see one of those fly. Be cool going around the pylons at Reno.


I just looked it up. I think we are remembering the "Betty Jo". It flew non stop from Hawaii to NY in 1947 and set a distance record.

Wow! 5000 miles non stop in a Mustang. That guy had a bladder.

 

FYI, Dolittle piloted the first transcontinal flight in under 24 hours, and first to do an inside loop. Also made the world’s first totally blind flight (IFR).

Just my $.02

 

Dave- You have to remember all those numbers you see for top speed for WW-II and early postwar propeller fighters were done using war emergency power with supercharger over-boost and water injection to prevent melting the combustion chamber. Time limits varied, but were usually around five minutes before the water ran out or the engine self-destructed. Plus fuel consumption went over the top. An F-82 would likely have had a maximum cruise speed in the area of 325-350 mph (282-304 KTAS). Still really fast, but a long ways from the 500 mph (434 KTAS) or so the first generation jets could manage. Would be an interesting contest.

John- You mean outside loop, with negative "g". They were doing inside loops before WW-I. Doolittle's feat was in 1927. Probably had red eyes from ruptured blood vesssels for several days afterward.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Oops. Yep outside ones.

My wife used to take exclusive care of Jimmy and "Granny" where she worked and they lived in the 1980's at Carmel Valley Manor retirement home . She also got to go to the annual Tokyo Raider reunions in San Diego with them. Doolittle was a class act in every respect, what I have gathered, and was the only resident at CVM that was allowed to wear his military style boots and a Bolo (instead of a necktie) to the dining hall. Very humble man and would strongly try to avoid the public attention and accolades he got at every turn.

Short in stature, but a giant everything else.

Wish I could have met my wife in the 80's to have had a chance to BS with him. Lots of great stories my wife has heard from him that you'll never read in his bio.

Ironically, I became friends with his great (maybe 2 greats) grandson, John, living in Carmel, who also flies, but as a private jet pilot and currently flying for a San Francisco company (GS G4). Met him through another member of my Deer club and is now a member himself.

Another off topic story but a few months ago, John brought down to the Deer club a couple of the General's shotguns to show us, that he had inherited. I almost fainted when I saw that both of them were personally made for Jimmy by Winchester and Browning, as Jim was an avid hunter. The amount of engraving and gold inlay with a sentence or two addressed to Doolittle, coming right from Mr. Winchester and Mr. Browning (metaphorically speaking), was breathtaking.

 

John- Jimmy Doolittle was a great American, leader, and pilot in every sense of the word. He and his wife were very unassuming and one of my mom's favoriter stories is how Mrs Doolittle would come to their officer's wives club meetings at March AFB (Riverside), CA in the early seventies. Mom says everybody, and I mean everybody, from lieutenant's wives to general's wives, loved her. My dad said Gen Doolittle was the same and loved to swap war stories, but without dominating a conversation, which he easily could have done. It was mostly "Did you know Curly?" and then great chuckles about stories of pilots they had both known. We were very lucky to have had him when we really needed him. He was tiny, but had a huge stature. We shall, unfortunately, never see his equal again.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Terry, I have to agree with your comment. Doolittle was part of a cadre of great Americans who even in the 20's were destined to burst forth in a brilliance when they were most needed. Doolittle, Le May, Eisenhower, Churchill, Roosevelt, Ed Wells ( B-17), Patton, etc. There was a Super Nova of leadership that was on the stage exactly when they were most needed and they performed brilliantly. And I can't dismiss the thousands of everyday Americans who gave everything they had without fanfare because they felt it was what they had to do. I knew too many of them who suffered without complaint or expectations of glorification and looked at what they did as simply a bump in the road.