How desirable is the 365GTC4?

From what you say above I don't think it's the car for you. If you don't have a good mechanic and can't/don't want to do the work yourself I think it would be very frustrating. They're great when well looked after.

And if you don't like the shape, what's the point?

 

Very common issue - a gap between the low-rev and hi-rev carb circuit. You need to find a guy with a feel for carbs and let him spend a day on perfecting it. My 365BB is running with a barely noticable gap now.

+1. I think the 365GTC/4 is a very desirable model - I would just never buy one. Because I also am not in love with the shape. OK, so maybe it's rare in your country. Who cares? In my view your Ferrari should lure you into the garage with her fantastic curves. If your not salivating over that model, buy another model. Buy one because you fall in love, not because the neighbours think she's a trophy.

Just my $0.02.


Onno

 

Once a C4 is set up correctly it really is bullet proof. Very strong and very reliable, and an easy car to drive as well as being fun and fast. If the car is not well sorted then either you must be an OK mechanic yourself or you have plenty of money to give to competant mechanics to work on it. The valve adjust on these cars is a weeks work - about $5,000. As for the stumble at 3000 rpm, this is a common issue but I rebuilt my carbs, put them back together and I had no stumble at all. I just followed the manual in setting them up.
John

 

I was asked this question on Tom Yang's terrific site some time ago my answer follows:

The GTC/4 is a very different car from even the last variant of the 330. There are likely extant about 400 of the 500 made, so you have few to choose from. There are significant differences between the US and Euro versions, and as was the factory practice, there were improvement to the cars during the production run. The best source of that info is the Blummel's V12 Survivors book which lists the adds by serial number and is also a good source to see if the car has been modified.

The Euro version is significantly more powerful then the US, all of which can be made up by pulling the pollution gear off the car (its all stock GM junk including the non metric threads) thereby restoring good intake and exhaust flow (Bill Badursky has the necessary plugs). There is an urban legend that the water pumps are impossible to fix on the car (not true) and that they are very fragile (way less temperamental than a 330 mechanical fuel pump). As to speed, 0-60 a Euro C/4 is 1/10 of a second slower than a Daytona and the C/4s brakes will stop that heaver car FASTER than the Daytona. The carbs are a pain IF you must meet pollution standards, if not, like any other 3 or 6 Weber cars, once set up, they never need touching (did you ever hear a Daytona owner complain about his carbs, or for that matter an honest to heaven C4 owner?). There is more time in pulling the carbs and cam covers to adjust the valves (most of which is getting those &@$ $@%$ air cleaners off, then its just a Daytona job, and if you really want a sight, leave the air cleaners off and the 12 velocity stacks otherwise covered by the air cleaners, exposed for all to see. The Euro cars have a 12 cylinder dissy, Mike Meehan can comment. The US has two that, like a 330, once you fix the weights and advance curves and add the MSDs they are bomb proof, and they are not all that hard to get in and out, however they are very difficult to work on while they are in the engine.

Oil burn rate is like all the others, simply a function of engine wear and the use of the correct oil, they like their Series II 330 brothers, have good valve seals. I bought my car with about 13,000 miles (it now has about 19,000) and I have never added oil between changes (though the engine seeps oil because I insist on using synthetics), the gauges and switches are as bomb proof as any other Ferrari of that era, and the transmission is properly bolted to the bell housing and easily accessible, but has those stupid Porsche synchros that are in your America, but seem some how slightly improved. Shifting is WAY better and more reliable than with the Daytonas loosy goosy linkage, and the independent rear suspension is the 365GTs and bombproof. The two rear air leveler shocks either work or don't and can be replaced with a Koni spring over conversion for about 1,300.00 or you can great a set of Monroe air shocks and paint them Koni orange (see Tom's notes for the proper paint) all for about 60.00 (and those that have done it say the ride and handling is identical) but count on a point off on the Pebble Beach Lawn.

Maintenance costs are impossible to describe. Tom Welch and I have cars that are essentially at zero deferred maintenance, and we would both assert these cars IF DRIVEN are very very reliable and like my 330 darn cheep to own. The challenge is finding a car that you can get to that stage (ask Yale). It turns like a GT car, (but way tighter than a 330), and it is WAY faster than the road tests describe. The sound is amazing. As to looks, it draws far larger crowds at the grocery store that my 330. Interior fitment is much better than the 330. This was the last of the hand built pre Fiat era cars, and PF was doing a much better job on the details than in the mid 60s. As to desirability, there many cars of that or later era I don't like to drive, the Daytona to me is like driving a loud, poorly built, Italian truck, the C4 is a joy to drive, modern, tight, won't beat you up on a long drive, yet will turn and keep up with the best of the modern cars and, it always makes me smile. So my advice is ignore all the hype as each car has its throng of admirers, and drive the cars, if it makes you smile when you are on a twisty road on a bright morning all alone, buy the best of one of those you can afford and like our esteemed hero, Admiral Phillips commit your self to wearing out the motor on drive after drive. Then someday, years and years from now, make her all new and take her to Pebble and tell them all your story.

 

DITTO!


Eloquently put as always Michael. A car built for enjoyable touring, and as I found out last summer in Maine on twisty back roads it can hold its own with many of the modern cars if driven properly.

 

I,m afraid I must put my .02...3 c worth in.I don,t have a C4 but a familly version GT42+2.This car since April 07 has given me the ultimate driving pleasure in both performance and handling.A round trip of about 2000 miles in late 07 to the FCA nationals netted ,furthest driven (in total comfort,handling,performance,reliability),fastest front V12 and concours (In class).The car(touch wood.....as you do)hasn,t missed a beat.On this past Sunday I had to wait for 8 minutes for the 5.8 litre Ford and 3.5 litre Triumph Stag to eventually catch up,from one of our FNQ range drives.The mechanicals are the same as C4 but you have 4 passenger accommodation.Were I looking for an ultimate very fast cruiser this(C4) would be the one as long as you are prepared to respect the marque.

 

Hendra
Michael Bayer is absolutely correct. If you talk to any serious C4 owner or someone who has been around older Ferrari for a long time eg Michael Sheehan, they will tell you C4s are terrific. The incredible noise they make at redline in 3rd gear (about 110) is GREAT. Euro cars are better than US versions but as Michael says you can get the US cars close to the Euro car if the pollution stuff is taken off, but they still have very different exhaust systems and I suspect that the cams and ignition timing are also different. But again if the car is not sorted out and you are either not mechanial competant or wealthy with access to COMPETANT Ferrari mechanics then stay away from a C4.
John

 

I have been happy with mine. The carb stumble can be eliminated by a good mechanic (Tim Stanford fixed mine on the first try)

If you dont like the way it looks (I do) dont buy it as every time you see it you will have regrets

 

For what it's worth, I desire a C4, ardently. It'll have to wait awhile, though.

 

Hi, Mike Meehan here. As M.Bayer states the C4 is a great car. Mine is a Euro version and the differences are subtle. Different side marker lights,gauges of course and under the hood. No smog stuff means 20more HP. Im not sure the difference is all that great but there is less stuff under the hood so things are easier to get at,also the headers and exhaust system is easier to work on. The distributor is a single with 12 wires,3lobe cam and 4 sets of points.A little tough to get at but easy to work on.A great car with fabulous sound. Get the best you can afford and have fun. Mike

 

Mr. Bayer is DEAD ON. I have had only one problem in 10 years of ownership and i blame John Bishop for that. Seriously though, the machines once set up are truly bulletproof. Find a good one and drive it. If you decide to buy a C/4 Buy the very best car available and you too will soon be writing glowing e mails to the next interested party. If you do buy a C/4 be sure to come over to 365GTC4.com and register the car.

 

I'll guess we all agree that the C/4's weakest aesthetic point is the front end.

Personally, I don't mind the look, it just seems like it would be extremely vulnerable to damage..

 

Some guys paint the bumper to match. Looks nice but my car is a dark color so it blends well. Any nicks are easy to fix . A quick sand and spray with a satin finish black. An easy DIY job. Most cars would require a body shop to spray a color fix. Mike

 

Mike
What does your car sound like compared to USA cars? Mine is a euro car and it sounds more like a race car than the US cars, especially above 4000rpm. I suspect that my car has more agressive ignition timing and maybe cam profile. Certainly the exhaust systems are quite a bit different between the USA and euro cars. I would be interested in your impressions.
John (it wasn't my fault that Dave's car developed a problem. It was an alternator issue and the alternator had been recently totally rebuilt !! If it aint broke, don't fix it !!)

 

I have just celebrated my 1 year anniversary with my 365 GTC/4. I have had virtually no problems. As far as the driving experience it does not drive like a new car. It is heavy around town but once you get it on the open road look out. At 65 mph it is like trying to hold back a race horse. The car just wants to go, you have to really pull back on the reins or you will find yourself at 110 mph and not even realize it.

On the open road it drives really nice. Rock solid, good brakes, good steering and does not wander. I also like the steering - not too heavy and not too light. The clutch is heavy and after a while you actually start to enjoy the heavy feel of the clutch.

Remember this is a car that is in the Daytona territory at a fraction of the price. This car shares it ancestry with all of the great V-12's of the Enzo era. There will never be anymore of them. This is my first Ferrari and I do not regret it at all.

There is lots of support for the car and in the era of the internet it is much easier to figure out the problems/fixes. I believe that makes it MUCH easier to own one of these cars.

Regards,

Fred

 

I have had my C4 for about 5 years...........5 great years of Ferrari motoring. I like most, had the mid-range stumble......the fix is super simple. Just change the main jets from 125 ( stock ) to a 135 ( a bit fatter ) When I made this change it was like night and day. Gas today is much different today than in the early '70's.....the 125 jets cause a lean stumble, the 135's provide enough additional fuel to eliminate it. I changed all 12 in about 20 minutes.

Geffen

 

While I have not been around a great many US cars I think that my car has a harsher sound. I mean that in a good way! North of 4000rpm while pulling it sounds like ripping fabric .Windows down ,no radio required!!! Mike

 

I just read through all of this and find myself a little out of breath. I love this car, and hope to have one some day.

 

I bought my first Ferrari in 1976...a 1972 365GTC/4 and still own it today...and still love the car!!! I have since owned, and still own other Ferraris as well..The C/4 runs as good, or even better than, any of the Ferraris I own...Just doing some math..I figure a major tune up at approx. 20,000 to 25,000 miles om my car...for me thats approx. one tune up every 7 years on the car...exclusive of oil changes, spark plugs, etc. on a regular basis.. this car will just run and run!!! I did a majot tune up (including valve adj. at about 47,000 and the cars performs as new...It's just a great car that requires normal maintenence and will last you forever.....GOOD LUCK..

 

great value compared to a Daytona.All the owners down here rave about them and they are a car the woman like for touring.

 

Mike
That is my impression as well. My euro car is "nasty" above 4000rpm, especially when you are accelerating hard. It growls and sounds like a LeMans racer. The sound is harsh and that is great. Maybe it is because of the noise it makes but it seems to go harder than the US cars I have driven as well, but that could be an illusion because the US cars are quieter and thus just seem more sedate.
We are going out with 40+ other old carby Ferrari for a 3 day drive in a few weeks. These include Daytonas, 275GTBs, 250 PF and GTEs, 330/365 GTCs, a few Queens, Dinos, 365BBs and 3 C4s. I am looking forward to the noise (music) of all those old bangers together. I think my euro C4 makes the best music. It is a combo of cam chain clatter, exhaust howl, induction resonance, valve train noise etc, especially at highr rpm. All together a symphony for any car nut.
Cheers
John

 

plus this.
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The 365GTC4 is a beautiful collectible, and was a featured lengthy article in Hemmings Sports and Exotic Magazine.

plus mine many moons ago. Hardtop in background. I put ANSA exhaust on it...
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Find a 365 GT4 2+2, more or less the exact same driving experience for $70k less.