The Enzo reimagined.... Jim's Ferrari P 4/5 by Pininfarina | Page 225 | FerrariChat

The Enzo reimagined.... Jim's Ferrari P 4/5 by Pininfarina

Discussion in 'Special Projects & Concept Cars' started by MarkPDX, Feb 3, 2006.

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  1. adelg88

    adelg88 Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2007
    296
    NJ
    Full Name:
    Andrew DelGrosso
    Jim, im somewhat of a photographer (im a college kid) so if you would ever allow me to shoot any of your cars i can take some good pics (no charge of course) and ill drive almost anywhere to see your AMAZING collection!

    if not, no problem.
     
  2. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Thanks. Will let you Know.

    Best
     
  3. need4speed

    need4speed Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,616
    Pacific Palisades
    Forget the kids! I want one! :)
     
  4. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    Hey Jim, do you have a photo of your car with the hood, doors and engine lid open? How about a photo of the interior and engine compartment? I don't recall seeing those details anywhere.
     
  5. 250californiafan

    250californiafan Formula 3
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    Sep 26, 2006
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    Kevin
    #5605 250californiafan, Apr 13, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  6. cntchds

    cntchds Formula 3

    Oct 22, 2005
    1,018
    San Jose, California
    Full Name:
    Peter Hatch
    Any pictures of how the exhaust is routed? I don't think I've seen any like that.
    Thanks Jim

    Peter Hatch
     
  7. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    Thanks Kevin! There seems to be more engineering in the car than I thought. I'd love to see the exhaust routing as well as any suspension/subframe/tub/engine/transmission/programming changes. Maybe Jim can toss us some appetizers.
     
  8. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    100,220
    Mount Isa, Australia
    Full Name:
    Pap
    Cool pics mate! Thanks for sharing. :D:D
     
  9. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    #5609 Napolis, Apr 14, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2009
    The subframes shorten the car especially the front overhang a lot which makes it a lot easier to get over speed bumps/into driveways/etc. The bulkhead as you can see is solid and the rear braces hard mount to the bulkhead as opposed to the CF. On the other side of the bulkhead is an FIA Roll Cage within the cf interior trim that carries that load back to the chassis. The entire top of the Enzo cf chassis has been removed. The front radiator is horizontal which lowers the frontal area and the entire sub frame is quite different. At some point we're going to replace that with a new cf sub frame which will be even lighter. The car is now at 2750 lbs. The car has a lot more tire which makes it turn in better and needs less electronic intervention at the rear. This raises the rear ratio but the car because of better traction and less weight is .5 of a second faster 0-100 kph. As it can still pull redline VMAX is 233 vs 225. Huge aero difference. Cx is .3 vs .34 with 2X Enzo downforce and is much better balanced downforce. Brakes have more cooling and engine gets more and cooler air which boosts hp a touch. Fuel pumps are relocated for safety and there are 200 unique engineered systems. Off road cockpit switch shunts exhaust straight through but keeps cats in. Wing actuator mechanism is much more robust as wing is bigger. There is a two stage cockpit air seal to equilibrate slowly so your ears don't pop as you reach high speed due to areo psi. A unique computer program match grains the cf weave side to side so the grain flows from the nose to the rear as a matched design.
     
  10. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    #5610 Napolis, Apr 14, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    We're always making changes. Note scratches we go under nose on the Historic Targa Florio. We engineered skid pads that go through the bottom directly to the chassis so if the car kisses the load is transferred to the chassis not to the cf panel.
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  11. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    100,220
    Mount Isa, Australia
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    Pap
    That is a GREAT idea Jim!! :):)

    Awesome pic of the front removed too. ;);)
     
  12. tjs1

    tjs1 Rookie

    Jan 23, 2009
    16
    Jim,

    Could you explain that a little further?

    Thx
     
  13. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    #5613 Napolis, Apr 14, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2009
    Basically you can design the weave to match surfaces so when clear coated it looks as you wish within limits and can make it mirror image so that right and left side panel matches to the eye not to the other panel.
     
  14. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    Beautiful Jim. I didn't realize you had so much engineering in the car. Were those Ferrari engineers, Pininfarina, others, or some combo?

    In that regard, I wonder how much of this design and engineering might wind up in the next Ferrari super car?
     
  15. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    Jim, originally I thought Ferrari went with the longer front nose and subframe for better aerodynamics at high speeds, like in their F1 cars. Is that not true? Also, I assume you have the same or longer wheelbase for high-speed stability?

    Also, could the longer nose and subframe be for better occupant protection in a frontal impact? Otherwise I would think they would have went for the shorter nose because it would be easier to live with day-to-day.
     
  16. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    Apr 6, 2004
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    CH
    Very interesting about all the modifications. Does a shop manual or log book exist as a record of the unique engineering features your Ferrari has?
    CH
     
  17. tjs1

    tjs1 Rookie

    Jan 23, 2009
    16
    Ok, that's what I thought you were referring to but just checking :)

    Did you clear coat the tub? As the tub delivered from ATR is just a tool surface finish.
     
  18. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    #5618 Napolis, Apr 14, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Bill

    The engineering was done by PF. Some of P 4/5 such as it's seating surfaces have already wound up in the 430 Scud. Keep in mind the Enzo was engineered in 2000 so it's not surprising that six years later we could figure out a few things to change.

    P 4/5 meets all crash requirements and all world wide motor vehicle standards for 2003 as required. The horizontal radiator is very efficient in absorbing impact vs an upright one. IMO the single most important thing in a road going supercar is the measurement from the center of the front wheel to the tip on the nose. The longer, the harder to enter a driveway for example or go over a bump. The shorter, the easier to drive on the street. Look at this photo. Note how when cranking if the front overhang was longer the outside tip might kiss especially on a crowned road.

    Aero is a function of many things and they are often at odds. Drag and Down force for example. High Down force often produces drag. Our goal with P 4/5 was downforce and lower drag which we were able to achieve with short from overhang. Note how our nose bottom even curves upwards vs Enzo which is flat making street drivability much better as it increased ground clearance. This does hurt front aero but we deal with that with our front Wing/Canards. Those Wing/Canards actually produce so much down force that we had to cut them down because they made more than the street springs could deal with and we didn't want to increase spring rates and make the ride too hard for the street.
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  19. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    I think we did. They did all our cf work.

    Best
     
  20. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    PF printed an owners manual for me like the Enzo Manual that is pretty funny as it shows me adjusting the seat belts etc. They made drawings from the computer scan they did of me for cockpit design.

    All of P 4/5 is stored on PF computers and I have a hard copy. The car's on board computer stores all of P 4/5 mathematics and can be displayed in CAD and parts car be "removed" so you can see how she's built and how to service her. All of her parts data is also in Ferrari's computers and when you plug her in the factory computers recognise her as P 4/5 and me as the owner.

    For some reason the factory computer thinks there are more ignition keys existent that I have. I wonder if they kept one...

    :)
     
  21. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    Jim, is it possible to purchase P 4/5 service, technical, parts and other data like you and PF have?

    I agree with the short length from front wheel center to nose tip for less worrisome street driving. I wonder if Ferrari didn't want to have the front Wing/Canards for aesthetic or some other reason?
     
  22. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    No it's proprietary.

    Not sure why Ferrari's have such long front overhang. Makes no sense to me as nose scraping gets old fast.

    What's the CGT's vs The Enzo's?
     
  23. PaulK

    PaulK F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 24, 2004
    4,783
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    Paul
    You got to post a pic or two of that owners manual, it souds just plain cool.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if in the future Fcar computers display more stats for customer cars, like yours does. Very forward thinking...
     
  24. John B

    John B Formula 3

    May 27, 2003
    1,564
    NJ
    Jim,
    I have to say, your P4/5 is one of the most breathtakingly beautiful cars I've ever seen, and I love that you use it as you do.
    Very, very nicely done!!
     
  25. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    #5625 Bill S, Apr 14, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

    The "significant" part of the overhang (i.e., the part that matters) measured from the center of the front wheels is about 45" in the Enzo and 42" in the CGT (see below).

    What is it for P 4/5?
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