0858 to be auctioned

Thanks for the answer.....clearing a Mechanic's Lien is simple, pay the bill......!!! But Walter M. still has the Title or ????

I suppose someone has stepped up to do that, then flip it.....

Now the discussion of the Certification can start, as IIRC they'll have to turn the clock back a long way........gonna take more than stickers, huh Paul S.???

Is the car completed or are we looking at Pshops or something?

Definately 'glass parts, as that rear clip is pretty wavy!!!

 

I doubt they're going to de-bore the block...

Don't really see how they can "Classiche" this one as a P4 without a bit of work.

As 350 Can Am, no problem.

Interestingly I wound up with her Alloy P4 Tail as last raced at Brands Hatch. Now fitted to 0846.

 

Ah, there you go.........as a "350 Can Am".......thanks!!

So Walter is the seller, you think??

It is pretty but I like to drive at night.......it's cooler then usually.

 

Nice article in the new FML. Gives an interesting race by race breakdown by serial numbers; the "conventional wisdom" of each car's race history is brought into question.

Jeff

 

0846 still the Daytona winner?

 

Now THAT'S funny!

Thanks for the laugh!

 

So shouldn't this car really be called a 350 Can-Am?

 

Agreed that in its current state that would be correct. From the autioneer's standpoint making the direct connection to a P4 might be considered worth more money.

Jeff

 

That is still correct. 0846 was the open roof that is not the one that was the problem keeping track of.

Jim, let me know if you don't subscribe.

Jeff

 

Isn't 0858 the car that was owned and raced in Australia in Can Am form for a while. It had a miserable time over here and didn't do anywhere near as well as the LM that the team owned. Reading between the lines in a book I have by the team owner, they hated the car.

It also had it's floor ripped off in a Surfers race. If I bought it I would restore it back to it's P4 form as it was uncompetitive as a Can Am car. A McLaren would slaughter it, as did a home grown Aussie special.

Ferrari don't do Can Am, just like this year they can't make a F1 car either
Pete

 

Yes. It's not a P4 it's a 350 Can Am. It could be re bodied as a P4 but it's engine would be wrong as it is 350 not 330. As an aside 0860 while re bodied as a P 4 doesn't have a P 4 motor either as it's motor is also 350 as it too was converted by Ferrari into a 350 Can Am. I guess one could have Classiche make a P 4 motor but I wouldn't. Turning it back into a P4 would IMO be like turning a Series II 250 GTO back into a Series I 250 GTO but in the end the new owner will make himself happy. As a futher aside David's 0900 has 0858's spare 350 Can Am motor.

The one Paul likes 0856 is the only original P4 still existent. There are no P3's existent as P3 0844 went to a 412P, a 330 Can Am and back to a 412P, P3 0848 went to a 412P, 0850 and 0854 were always 412P's and P 3 0846 went to a P 3/4.

Cheers

 

Jim,

Which do you know more about? The stock market and the economy (your profession) or Ferrari (your passion)? I'm sure the lines are blurred between the two, but it is really fun to read your posts.

GT

 

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So 0900 has 0858's spare engine and 0860's old bodywork!

 

"Jim, With all being said, do you think it will sell? "

These are interesting times. I'm a member of the Wildlife Conservation Society. They've been continuously publishing a magazine for 122 years. Because of the World Wide Financial Crisis they're ceasing publication. A very rare Corvette Grand Sport failed to sell at RM Arizona. A lot of very rare cars are coming up. A Cobra Daytona Coupe, the TR and this one. All of those are different animals. The Cobra Daytona Coupe and the TR are a lot easier to enjoy than this one. They can be driven on the street and on rallies which is a lot of fun. As is this one is a track car. You need a crew to run it. To use it you have to make a large Time investment. If you let it sit too long without running it will rot. If you stick it in your museum for two years it will take a lot of work to get it running again. It's beautiful, wonderful and rare. IMO one of three things will happen. The reserve will be too high and it won't sell. For a reasonable price it will sell to someone like me, or Ferrari will find someone who wants to bask in their sunshine and will pay up, leave it with them, give them 1.5MM euro extra and Classiche it into a P4.

As the Future's not ours to see I don't worry about it. Que Sera, Sera.

 

...I, for one, value your opinion since you've been there. Thanks! (...really? 1.5mm euro to get it back to a P4???!!!)
I would put a value on the car @ about $10mm-$12mm because it doesn't have it's original engine and body. If it did, I would say over $20mm. So to put it back to looking as it did when it rolled out would put you in the neighborhood of $15mm. That's a daunting amount of money. (...though, if I had it, I think I would spend it! It would definitely set ones' collection apart. But you know this!)

 

I would find it sacrilege to have the car converted back to a P4. It has a very interesting history as what is is: full P4 then factory converted to a Can Am car with another history.

So it can't be driven (legally) on the street. Neither can any of the F1 cars, a 512S or M, 312 P/PB or other Can Am cars. That hasn't stopped people from owning and having fun with those either.

Jeff

 

I was under the impression it did have its original engine- which was simply bored out for the move from 4 to 4.2 liters.
If so, good ole' Classiche could sleeve it could they not

 

It may have it's original engine simply bored out to 350. Is this it's original 350 Can Am body?

The legality isn't the main issue you could fit a nose with headlights, a horn, etc without molesting it and you could be legal as it's a 1967. The real issue is the mechanical FI which isn't that much fun on the street.

No question you can enjoy this car as the other's you've mentioned but it's a big Time Investment to. It's a lot rarer than a 250 GTO and 2 OA at Le Mans is great history (assuming there wasn't a swap as some think there was) but a GTO is a lot more usable in a lot more situations. I think usability has a lot to do with the value of a GTO.

The 1.5MM is simply my guess as to what they'd charge not what I could convert it for.

Cheers

 

Will be very interesting to see what it sells for and to whom it is sold..

 

We've been down this road before right? Who's to say that it will actually be auctioned this time?

If it does make it to the block I see it selling. These kind of opportunities aren't exactly common.

 

This time I think it will make it to the block.

 

Will there be a video streaming of the auction? I did not see a sign up on the RM site.

Jeff

 

Excuse me, Jim .... I like 'em all !!

Personally, I also think it would be a great shame if #0858 was to be subsequently converted back to a P4 berlinetta (or spyder).
She's the last surviving factory 350 Can-Am car (the other being Pierre Bardinon's car - #0860 which was converted back to a P4 spyder. All it needs is a few 'detail fixes' (such as the fuel fillers I mentioned earlier) to make it a 'period' (late '67) correct-appearing 350 Can-Am.

Unfortunately, it's probably worth at least half as much again in P4 Berlinetta or Spyder configuration ....

.... which, no doubt, is why RM have majored on the 'P4' misnomer, rather than the correct 350 Can-Am designation.