Mega Thread: The 430 Replacement (F450, F500, etc)

I gotta agree with Imunzz22. I liked the looks of the F450 concept better (as far as I could tell from the spy photos). I heard recently from a reliable source that they were testing the 450 engine on the track, so perhaps both will come out? That would be kind of wierd though... I for one hope they go with the F450 instead; I want the Ferrari to look unique rather than like a modified Lambo.

 

That is what I'm getting at.

 

Here is the latest news from Road & Track http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=10&article_id=8032

"Unlike the Ferrari F430, which was a direct evolution of the 360 Modena, the 2010 F450 will be a completely new car. In styling, the F450 will distinguish itself from the F430 with a decidedly more angular and aggressive stance. The characteristic rear fender air intakes will disappear, while the intakes ahead of the rear wheels will grow larger, as will the openings below the front bumper. The headlights will flow farther up the front fenders. The F450 will be slightly wider than the current car, and as such will offer more interior room.
Ferrari made it clear with its Mille Chili concept in 2007 that shedding pounds is more key to future performance than adding extra power. As such, the F450 will be significantly lighter than the F430, aiding not only acceleration and handling, but also fuel economy. Therefore, we don't expect the new 4.5-liter mid-mounted V-8 to pack much more than 520 bhp. The engine will be mated to a higher-performance version of the 7-speed twin-clutch gearbox found in the California.

But there is another possibility: turbocharging. Ferrari brass have recently admitted that smaller-displacement, direct-injection turbocharged engines are in the company's future. Most likely, though, forced induction — as well as a road-version of the Formula 1 KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems) technology — will be saved for the upcoming Enzo replacement. Regardless of the engine, the newest Prancing Horse will definitely not be any less expensive — in fact, we expect the new F450 to be significantly more expensive than the California, which is priced near $225,000.

The new Ferrari F450 will be unveiled at this year's Frankfurt auto show in September, going on sale in early 2010; you'll have to hold out until 2012 or 2013 to get your hands on the track-worthy Scuderia version."
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Sounds absolutely sick!

 

Just took a second look and figured I'd list a few observations:

1. The yellow car appears to be very similar in physical spec to the current 430 platform, whereas the red one has a longer wheelbase. Look at the rear overhang on each car - the red one appears to have a shorter rear overhang with more space between the rear wheel and door. The yellow has a mysterious "brake test" sign taped to the rear, which would be self-evident if it weren't for the odd wheelbases at play here. Both appear slightly wider given the cut and flared front fenders and both are riding on 20's, as seen by the Maserati QP sport wheels on the yellow mule.

2. There appears to be a seriously trick diffuser at work on both these cars (Hit "high quality", enlarge the picture and pause it). Unless there's some camo at work, there seems to be a double-decker diffuser (ironically disputed in F1 at the moment) with some sort of mystery "exhaust" element at the center/top. Given that the new 599XX is using "active" aero via fans at the rear, I'd venture there could be a similar concept at work here too.

3. The two cars here could -- COULD -- be two mules for two different cars. That is, the red car with longer wheelbase and vents over the engine could represent a twin-turbo Enzo replacement or hardcore variant. It would explain the vents (intercoolers) and different size vehicle spec. Surely this is a longshot, especially given parallel development work (engine in one vehicle, suspension tuning in another) but I see some different thinking and ideas represented in each of these cars.

 

I think that's possible: The red one has a different wheelbase as well. If Ferrari is trying to think cost-effectively (who isn't?!), they'd use the same platform for both, making the "super" version more of a variant than a completely different car.

Hey, can we reconcile the two threads on this into one in the gen'l Ferrari Discussion forum? This isn't using the 360/430 platform anymore and there's probably more readership over there.

 

Strange that they still keep that weird photoshop instead of using the spy photos for new renderings... same with Road&Track

 

It wouldn't amaze me if the 450 comes a bit later than people think and looks different than people think it will.

 

That's exactly what I've been thinking.

 

It doesn't sound like there'll be an F450 at all. If they're going with the F500, then that'll be the V8 model. There wouldn't be any market for an F450 since everybody looking for a V8 would want the F500.

You can see why they'd do that, too. With the Gallardo and R8 boasting big V10s that produce 550+ hp, they'll need to compete with those numbers. My guess is that the Car & Driver rendered photo will be closer to the real offering than the others we've seen so far. The R&T rendering looks too much like the Gallardo. Pininfarina would never stoop that low.

 

F450 would be a 4.5 liter V8

 

+1 Probably delayed into 2010. Saw a photo in Quattroruote in Italy that purports to show real car, and a few people closer to the situation than most confirmed that to be correct. I think someone has posted the photo in the 430 section below.

 

My mistake, its post # 373 in this thread.

 

Sorry again, that was the poster's # post. The actual post is #1203.

 

If you look at their production time line, they've never introduced 2 distinct V8s at the same time (with the exception of the California, which is a new kind of car for them). They tend to continue the previous V8 model for one year into the new model's introduction. But I can't see them introducing a 4.5 liter V8 and a 5 liter V8 simultaneously--there would be a good 4-5 years before the newer model is introduced. Whereas, Audi is already upping the ante with the Gallardo and R8. A 4.5 liter V8 would put Ferrari at a disadvantage for years to come.

That's why I believe they'll go for the 5 liter F500, debuting in the fall.

 

Sure they did, the 328 and the F40.

 

There's quite a lot of shared thinking between the yellow R&T car & the Italian in post 1203

 

Yes, but not really. F40 is considered a "halo" car, like the F50 and Enzo. Those are the limited production models made for one less than the estimated demand. Enzo wanted his cars to be scarce, so he would estimate the demand for them, and the make one car less than that estimate.

The F500 won't be a halo car--just the replacement for F430. I haven't heard anything about the next halo coming out.

 

That's what we're talking about here as well; the red car (due to wheelbase, vents for possible intercoolers) may be the mule for the Enzo replacement, while the yellow mule looks to be the 450/500, or whatever you want to call it. I agree that Ferrari isn't planning TWO mid-engined V8 mass produced cars.

 

Does anybody know if the new F450 or F500 will be an AWD car? I've seen pictures and videos of a highly deguised 430 lookalike car testing in Europe this past winter in snow and rain.
Like this video picture and others: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emDz8_zG05c

 

Road & Track published this in their June '09 issue:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=10&article_id=7966.

 

Ferrari hasn't been keen on AWD. There were rumors of them messing around with an AWD system back in '06. It wasn't a full-time AWD setup--it would direct power to the front wheels only as needed. But now it's 3 years later and still no word.

My guess would be no. But then I would have never guessed they would actually make a California, either.

 

AWD goes against their lighter/more efficient mandate. I doubt we will see it.

 

I could be mistaken, but wasn't this a test mule for the Scud, not the F450? If it is a test mule for the F450, it is only for drive train testing, since the most recent spy photos bear no resemblance to that which is show here.

 

By your line of thinking, since Ferrari has never made a front-engine V8, the California doesn't exist. These are modern times with modern marketing thinking at work at Ferrari. What Enzo wanted and what the business situation demands are not often the same.

With sales slumping everywhere so fast, I'm split on what's going to happen with this car. Rushing it to market seems costly but resting on the 430 for another year seems expensive as well. I think the Scuderia is selling pretty well still and the Cal is ramping up so maybe they'll sit on the 450/500 for another year until that build-out is complete. I guess we'll know more this fall...