Please help! 360 Engine failure after main dealer belt change. | Page 3 | FerrariChat
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Please help! 360 Engine failure after main dealer belt change.

Discussion in '360/430' started by dkilka, Apr 24, 2009.

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  1. dkilka

    dkilka Formula Junior

    May 8, 2007
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    #51 dkilka, Apr 27, 2009
    Nothing has been inspected yet and hence nothing can be determined. Perhaps this was an act of God and as I have stated previously, I will then have to accept this and try and move on. I am not attempting to pin this on the dealer or Ferrari if the fault is not with them. However if the work performed on my car was not done correctly and caused the failure (As determined by an authorised 3rd party inspector such as another Ferrari dealer) then the laws of any country would be on my side.

    I have paid a substantial premium (This 30k service, belts and oil seal replacement cost me over 3500 GBP!) to keep my vehicle within the Ferrari UK dealer service network and I fully expect certain standards. Why else would I or anyone else do this? This vehicle has never been worked on by anyone other than approved Ferrari UK dealers and always in accordance with the schedule. It has only covered 27k miles. This failure has occured in exactly the area where the work was performed! The pulleys were removed to change the camshaft oil seals as part of the 30k service and obviously the belts were changed. I feel that given the above this sort of failure should not be occuring less than 100 miles after the work was performed! coincidence??? No ****!!!

    I paid out this money to obtain a quality service to ensure exactly this sort of thing would NOT happen!!!
     
  2. Oengus

    Oengus F1 World Champ
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    #52 Oengus, Apr 27, 2009
    I agree
     
  3. rustybits

    rustybits F1 Rookie
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    #53 rustybits, Apr 27, 2009
    Good post, i agree with your observations, and it's a credit to you that you aren't cursing and pointing the finger at anyone, which many would. If they fitted new cam seals, they could have removed the exhaust cam and just slid the seal on from the back, or removed the variator and fitted it from the front. If the variator hasn't been tightened to the correct torque, it could well have come loose and caused all this damage. Like i said earlier, and as you have pointed out, nobody will know untill it's been properly inspected. I hope it all works out for you, and if somebody is at fault, that they will cover at least some of your expense. Good luck.
     
  4. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

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    #54 greyboxer, Apr 27, 2009
  5. rizzo308

    rizzo308 F1 Rookie
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    #55 rizzo308, Apr 27, 2009
    dkilka..... if you get stuck for a mechanic i can hook you up with a v good X dealer mechanic PM me i needed good luck
     
  6. dkilka

    dkilka Formula Junior

    May 8, 2007
    289
    Australia
    #56 dkilka, Apr 28, 2009
    Thanks guy's,
    I appreciate the feedback from everyone. This has been a really terrible experience and one I would not wish upon anyone else!!!

    I just hope that the UK dealer who performed the work acts in a professional manor if they have a case to answer to. I feel I have been professional through out this dificult time and I have not disclosed the name of the dealer in question as this would not be a fair thing to do given I do not know all the facts. Perhaps they have done everything correctly and are not to blame.

    However the last thing I want is them trying to worm their way out of it if it does turn out that they are to blame for all this! Obviously if they are to blame I will have proof but I do not want to take legal action, I just want it sorted. I hope they can be as reasonable as I have been once they are presented with the evidence and stand by their work.

    Don't get me wrong if they play hard ball I will definately take legal action and persue this with every ouce of vigour in my body.

    The car is being delivered to the Ferrari dealer as we speak so I should soon discover if the UK dealer who performed the work has any case to answer or not.
     
  7. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

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    #57 greyboxer, Apr 28, 2009
    If you pm chassis no I can check if there's any outstanding recall as I've just been sent the March 2008 list
     
  8. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #58 PAP 348, Apr 28, 2009
    Cool mate!! Looking forward to see what they say. :):)

    That is a great idea Jimmie!! :):)
     
  9. dkilka

    dkilka Formula Junior

    May 8, 2007
    289
    Australia
    #59 dkilka, May 1, 2009
    Guy's,
    The Left hand side exhaust variator has failed. This is what has caused the damage.

    I will post further info as and when known.
     
  10. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #60 PAP 348, May 1, 2009

    Uh oh!! :eek::eek:
     
  11. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #61 Rifledriver, May 1, 2009
    There is a code number on the front of the variator indicating it date of manufcture.

    Post the number and I can tell you when it was made and if it is one of the bad ones or not.
     
  12. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    #62 RayJohns, May 1, 2009
    Brian,

    Here is what he sent me in a recent PM. He may have more info to provide, but I'll post what I have available, since he may not be on for a bit due to the time difference, etc.

    "The variator removed has the following markings on the front where it bolts to the sprocket; OMG C688"

    Don't know if that helps or if it's the code you are looking for.

    Ray
     
  13. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #63 PAP 348, May 1, 2009
    Thats the one Ray. :D:D

    He wont be on for a while yet I can imagine. It is currently 2.40 am here in Australia on a Saturday morning. :D:D

    Actually, he lives in Perth. Perth, is 3 hrs behind the rest of Australia. So his time is currently. 11.40 pm. He may post soon, unless he is out clubbing somewhere? :p:p

    Looking forward to your reply Brian!! :):)
     
  14. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #64 Rifledriver, May 1, 2009
    Last edited: May 1, 2009
    Thats not it.

    OMG is the manufacturer and their number

    Date code is a single number followed by a single letter.

    As I understand it variators were not replaced under warranty in the UK. If that is true it looks like he is SOL.
     
  15. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    #65 RayJohns, May 1, 2009
    Yeah, I didn't think so either, but I figured it was worth a try. I tried to look that number up against the TSB, but nothing seemed to match.

    Ray
     
  16. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #66 PAP 348, May 1, 2009
    Well then, that ****s that! :p:p
     
  17. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

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    #67 greyboxer, May 1, 2009
  18. dkilka

    dkilka Formula Junior

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    #68 dkilka, May 2, 2009
    Last edited: May 2, 2009
    Thanks Brian,
    Your help and assistance are greatly appreciated (as per usual). The only code I can see on the variator is on the front face in the center, the sprocket bolts via 4 bolts to this face. The markings are visable in the centre. Again the markings are; OMG C688

    I will remove the sprocket from the variator and see if there are any other markings visable on the face that is currently obscured by the sprocket.


    I have also been informed by a Ferrari tech (unofficially) who has been on a course to Italy recently that the new type variators have also started to fail!

    I would strongly recommend everyone on here to get theirs replaced as a matter of course when they have the belts done on all future services. Believe me guy's you don't want this **** to happen to you!

    Obviously this is just hearsay at the moment (although I have had this confirmed by another contact in the UK so I certainly feel this is true!) but Ferrari will never admit to this. Just leave the poor owners to clear up the mess and pick up the peices (literally!!!!!)
     
  19. dkilka

    dkilka Formula Junior

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    #69 dkilka, May 2, 2009
    Last edited: May 2, 2009
    Hi Brian,
    Would this info be on the front face of the variator? The code I supplied previously was the only visable markings on the front of the variator. Where should I look on the variator for this info? I will look at the other variator as this will be removed and replaced by a new one when the car is repaired (looks like this will be in 12 or so mths once I have saved up the cash).

    According to Ferrari UK the car had the variators replaced in Aug 2004 but they cannot tell me which dealer performed the recall!! Funny that the heads have not been stamped with VD if this was actually done. Perhaps the dealer claimed the recall but didn't actually do the job?

    I assume "SOL" means something like"up **** creek without a paddle" LOL!!!!!!!

    Regards

    dkilka.
     
  20. dkilka

    dkilka Formula Junior

    May 8, 2007
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    #70 dkilka, May 2, 2009
    The only clubbing I currently feel like doing is to the guy who designed the variators!!!!!!
     
  21. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

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    #71 greyboxer, May 2, 2009
    I guess its possible the 'VD' stamp was only required to be done on the US TSB - chances are the dealer who was looking after the car at the time would have done it : is there a hint in the service history ?
     
  22. swilliams

    swilliams Formula 3

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    #72 swilliams, May 2, 2009
    I think "Rifledriver" had mentioned a few years ago something about how the dealers chose to put the Variators on the car. I dont think the campaign pays enough hours to do the job right so they do it a quicker way that could weaken something and leave the car a little out of time. I can't remember if it was the cam itself or the variator that he mentioned could be damaged.
     
  23. carcommander

    carcommander Formula 3

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    #73 carcommander, May 2, 2009
    I am sorry your car will be laid up for a year. I am not sure I would own one of these things if I did not have the reserves to fix it If I had an engine failure. When I owned my 360 I always new it could have a 20K problem any time. My 430 is in warranty but will be out in a couple of years. Have you thought about sourcing a used engine? That could very well be cheaper than fixing yours.
     
  24. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #74 Rifledriver, May 2, 2009
    Last edited: May 2, 2009
    The date code should be visable. I would surmise that if it has no date code they are early enough production that there was no concern for production date. I have to say if there is no date code on them I just do not believe they are replacement units. They got very concerned about date codes because it was so hard otherwise to tell the good ones from the bad ones.

    If Ferrari paid someone that much money to do anything you can damn well bet they know exactly who they paid it to.

    As far as the VD on the heads is concerned I do not place any stock in that. Every campaign and every recall requires some sort of mark on the car and it is almost never done. Ferrari always says to do it but I bet less than 1 in 100 do. The only way we have ever had to reliably know if a campaign or recall was done was to look at the actual repair or modification.
     
  25. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #75 PAP 348, May 3, 2009
    Lol! I can imagine mate!! :D:D

    12 months eh?? SORRY to hear mate!! Really sorry to hear! :(:(

    Have they done a compression/leak down test yet?? Has it bent valves on that bank?? :(:(

    Ship the car here, buy the parts and I will have it back on the road for you in no time! ;);)

    I just finished a headjob the other night actually. Job well done too. :D:D
     
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