Cheers, it is a sickness and obsession, it is always good to converse with another who shares the same passion whether one agrees on all points or not!
Wow - I beat you Andreas by 3 years!!! My first GP was at Watkins Glen in 1976 - 8 years old; in love with F1 ever since. I have a picture of me with the 6 wheel Tyrell; I will post some in another thread. Good post Kevin
This thread was about a movie, not Senna's death anniversary, enough about Me having "poor taste" for merely posting my opinions here. If anything it's a poor reflection on you people. Theres a thread about the 15th anniversary of Senna's death, If I had poor taste I would be all over that thread right ? As I have stated, I'm not a big fan of Schumacher, those who vilify him have good reason, so let's leave the German out of the conversation. I was under the impression he admitted his guilt shortly after, if that's not the case then I apologize. You don't have to wait too long for a first stone to be cast, as I stated before, go watch Mika win 2 WDC's or Stewart win 3. That's only 2, I could go on and on, I could mention Damon Hill or JV, how about Mansell ? None of those drivers stole a Championship did they ? Senna did, that's a FACT ! I don't buy the revenge excuse, what did Ferrari ever do to Senna ? If he was this great person then why do this ? He should have been stripped of his 1990 WDC and punished by the FIA. I have family in Italy who feel that it was no surprise that he died on Italian soil, but in death Senna seems to have been forgiven his misdeeds, never. Ayrton Senna stole a Championship from Ferrari, this is a fact, the Tifosi will NEVER forgive him, also a FACT. You may now continue your Senna love fest.
If you look at F1 only through red tinted glasses, then you could make this statement. What Senna did however was not so much about Ferrari, but getting even with Prost who stole the title from him the previous year. Ferrari was merely an innocent bystander in that fight. The whole thing could have been avoided if the FIA had given Senna the right to choose the side of his pole position in the Japanese GP. He had pole and as such the right to pick from where to start. They didn't grant him his wish and he had to start on the dirtier side. The FIA gets as much of the blame for the accident as Senna and Prost for having started it a year earlier. As for the statement about the Tifosi never forgiving Senna, well that's just utter nonsense: - For one there is a beautiful Senna memorial outside of Tamburello at the Imola track, which is basically in the middle of the Tifosi heartland. The memorial is not being vandalized btw. - Also had Senna lived past 94, chances were good that he had been driving the Ferrari in 95. The history of F1 would have been radically different with him in the Ferrari instead of Schumacher. Or maybe alongside Schumacher in a remake of Prost vs Senna at McLaren.
Kevin...I'd like to see the photo. What thread will you post it in? My first was the Glen in 65. Have a photo of (I think) McLaren's Cooper-Climax from that race I'll post as well.
Every one of those drivers won in vastly superior cars from the competition with the exception of Stewart. If you include DH, JV in the same category as Fangio, Clark, Senna and Schumacher..... Thank you so much for helping me see the error of my ways... I am so sorry to have offended you.
Go ahead, make excuses for Senna's cowardly actions, all his fans do. This is part of the problem. This statement confirms to me that you don't know what you're talking about. Putting words in my mouth are you ? What's your point I would say ? Firstly, World Champions tend to win in superior cars, no ? Secondly, I mentioned Mika (who you left out) Stewart, then DH, JV and Mansell as drivers who won their WDC's without any controversy. I don't remember saying they were equil talents, they all won WDC's and they certainly win races fair and square, especially when the trophy is on the line, this cannot be said about Senna who obviously didn't trust his abilities to get the job done and resorted to cheating.
I have told you already I'm not a Senna fan. And you know how the Tifosi really feel because of? Please enlighten me. Just telling somebody they don't know what they're talking about without actually arguing the issue is not a productive way to hold a discussion. That is more like trolling.
Not always, WDC that one in something less than the best car followed by (Superior Car) 1973 Stewart (Lotus), 1974 Fittipaldi (Ferrari), 1976 Hunt (Ferrari), 1977 Lauda (Lotus), 1979 Scheckter (Williams), 1982 Rosberg (Renault), 1983 Piquet (Renault), 1991 Senna (Willaims), 1994 Schumacher (Williams), 1995 Schumacher (Williams) and 2007 Raikkonen (McLaren).
I came here because I thought this thread was about the proposed Senna Documentary. Anyway, for those of you who are interested there is an article about it, which includes comments from the co-producer, on page 7 of this online magazine: http://mag.gpweek.com/
I was going to let this go but due to the other comments I decided to reply. Your examples above, at least the last 20 years, are debatable to say the least. Let's leave the dinosaur era out of the argument and focus on the last 20 years : 1991, Senna: folks love to give him credit for winning with a crap car here but he was defending his stolen championship and actually with the help of his teammate the team won the constructors title, that was a pretty decent car I would say regardless of others opinions. 1994, Schumacher : Maybe before the season he was an underdog but not the rest of the way. Ford was supplying upgraded motors and the car was clearly fast. Let's not forget that the car was found to have traction control and was involved in a scandal for even letting the results of the season to stand. 1995, Schumacher : This car was clearly equal to the Williams after getting the Renault engine which was revolutionary. Hardly a lesser car. 2007, Raikkonen : Come on, again hardly a lesser car. Ferrari was on pole 1/2 the time, how is this a lesser car ? Sure, he pulled a rabbit out of the hat to win the trophy but not exactly a lesser car. My point is that whenever the "superior car" theory pops up it can be shot down. The good cars win the trophy, look at this year for a good example, do you actually think that Jenson Button is the best driver on the grid ? Funny you say this, at the Brazilian GP in 1988 I caught Senna flirting with my wife, he was walking down the pitlane past the Ferrari pit and moved right in on her. At this time my wife would put most of the pitbabes to shame so I wasn't surprised. I was with a large group from FNA attending the race, I saw them chatting out along the pitlane. My wife came up to me and said "He's charming" , I could only laugh ! FWIW, my wife and I are still very happy.
That is news to me. AFAIK it was rumored to have traction control, but was never found guilty of. Instead they put Schumacher out of business for a few races for a technicality (cuts too deep in the plank board after he slid over the cerrated curbs at Spa). The results of the season were in question because of the way MS put Hill out of contention in the last race. Not because of the car.
I personally would love to see a Senna documentary, I'm too young to remember Senna completely so it would be good to see a documentary about the good and bad times in his career and the type of character he was. I think i can guess some of that already. It would be good for all the young supporters of F1 to know about a true great in the sport in detail not just to have a couple of views or memories.
So the truth finally comes out. You've been bitter all these years because Senna was hitting on your wife.
You're way off on that one. No one said the McLaren wasn't a good car, it certainly was, but the Williams was a much better car. Mansell should have easily been champ that year were it not for Senna's brilliance. Credit when it is due, only Senna's Mclaren could keep pace with the Williams duo, Berger certainly couldn't. That speaks volumes. Winning with the best car on the grid is one thing, winning in a car that is clearly not, is quite another and you seem to have confused the two. What does his defending his "stolen championship" have to do with anything? Prost was defending his "stolen championship" in 1990.
