More Old Photos

Haven't made it all the way through this thread yet but have seen some interesting things! Thanks to all for sharing. And particularly David for starting it off with such great stuff! I'll be back. Thought I should contribute before leaving.

I know some partial answers to some of these, but more information is always welcome. Not all of these images show "Ferrari" cars, but each has a Ferrari connection. There is bit of a clue in each file name in that there is the year each photo was taken as well as the photographer's credit.

John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry
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#62 would appear to be 166SC s/n 012I at the Aosta San Bernardo Hillclimb on August 28, 1949, driven by Giovanni Bracco.

-Jarrett

 

i think the n° 66

 

Jarrett: Yes, #62 is indeed Giovanni Bracco, 2nd overall (1st in class: "Sport oltre 1100cmc") in Ferrari 012/I.

Sire Bruno: #66 was also a Ferrari. Roberto Vallone drove it to 3rd o/a (2nd/ class: "Sport oltre 1100cmc")
Unfortunately, I do not seem to have a nice photo of that one. Sorry!

They were both beaten by a very special Cisitalia-Abarth F2 car driven by Piero Taruffi.

John

 

Photos 2: Biondetti with the "Ferrari-Jaguar" ,probably Aoste Grand Saint Bernard 51
and Photo 3: Cortese also Aoste Grand Saint Bernard 51 .

 

Biondetti in the Jag is right but Cortese drove with a different racenumber. See this photo. The other F2 Ferraris were driven by Bianchetti and Romano, so one of them.
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Yours truly did a story on the Jaguar Ferrari Biondetti sport in the Ferrari Market Letter about 10 years ago: I pushed the research about as far as I could: it was very intriguing. There are some mysteries and a bit of fog there, most likely after an accident in the UK. Seeing Kai Bertelsen drive it at the Mille Miglia 1999 teased my curiositiy.

best regards,

Marc

 

... is understandable as the two venues can look very similar. The 1951 event shown in the second and third images is the Susa - Moncenisio hillclimb held 22 July 1951, one week before the Aosta - Gran San Bernardo hillclimb.

 

See also here: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158477&highlight=ferrari+biondetti

 

Attached is a photo of #66.

Unsure of who to credit for the photograph.

-Jarrett
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This has got to be one of the best Ferrari pictures I have ever seen!!!
Car and driver working hard and from the background you get an idea of what they have been through already.

Just these two spectators should be beamed up by a photoshopper. Would love to have it as a wall cover.

Keep them coming, I love this thread!

 

yes thank.

is not Bracco? ? ?

 

I also have a substantial file on this car . We probably will never know for sure the source of the chassis and body for this car but some mysteries are best left to ???. Thanks for the pic of # 85. just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

I will ask my question one more time, and by the fact that no one addressed my original question, I am guessing no moderators ever read the threads. (Touch of sarcasm!!)

Is it possible to have a gallery section in this forum with these incredible historical photos?? While the photos are an amazing treasure trove, not have them organized and searchable diminishes their usefullness.

Thank you all for posting these great pictures!!!

 

-Bill that is a good point which we tried to solve in the Maserati section but nothing came of it. The problem is the format: it is very easy to post: idiot proof but not so easy to organize things as you mentioned. Hopefully Rob will make that major improvement to the site which could make it much more useful than it already is.

-Tongascrew: yes I ran into a wall on the English side when researching the Biondetti special...

best regards,

Marc

 

I have them all of the even numbered cars from 1947 to 1966 and most of the odd numbered cars but not including the 250 GT cabriolets, Boanos, Ellenas. Had to draw the line some where. I have been creating paper files on all these cars and yes it has taken a"tremendous amount of work" over the past three years.I figure I am about half way done considering the many different Ferrari chat and historical sites there are on the internet from around the world. Fortunately many of these have translations from the original language but I have to slog thru pages and pages of post 1966 info as many sites don't break down as does FerrariChat USA. What I would suggest is that anyone looking for a particular picture Google up the chassis number. Note you must enter it as follows" ferrari,space, then the chassis # beginning with the correct Os if less that four didgits, followed ,no space, by the model code [AM,MM etc.in captiol letters". This will get you into the web site for that car and in many cases there will be a reference to "more old pictures" and other sites of interest. Be careful, you may also be able to access some Ferrari sites you may never have heard of and that can be where the real fun starts if you have the time.In closing I will say I think I am doing pretty well until Marcel answers someone's question with the most detailed info imaginable. I can't imagine the time and effort taken to collets this amount of detail. Well he has been at if for close to thirty years. just one man's opinion. tongascrew

 

From an old Italian magazine (called Alba) that my dad had lying around from 1967. Lorenzo Bandini returning home after Ferrari's 1-2-3 finish in Daytona.
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The red and black car in the bottom photo looks like a Siata or Fiat 8V to me....but which one, where, and when?

 

That is the Siata 400F (lookalike 208CS) #CS069 with original engine #CS074 carrozzeria Balbo fitted with Ferrari Mondial engine (!) at Beverly, New Bedford (MA) on July 7 1956 raced by George Arents from Norwalk (CT) with racenumber 100 who was a DNF.

 

Responding to Tongascrew's latest, I used to keep a book of S/N's, with type, ownership history, race history if appropriate, etc. This started back in the early 60's, using info Jess Pourret gathered from the factory as well as other sources. I still refer to it occasionally, but never got around to digitizing the info as I'm a three-finger typist. No photos, just data. My book goes up to about S/N 1100. I'll be happy to answer any specific inquiries within the above parameters. However, I think most of this data is already out there, as others have done the same and more.

 

Stu is correct and Boudewijn has added precisely correct detail.

For a time, I thought that the Mondial engine fitted was 0464/MD, as that engine was removed from the Mondial (most likely by Jim Pauley?) when owned by George Arents or George Tilp. Pauley then fitted an Offenhauser ("Offy") engine to the Mondial for Tilp or Arents? But, it seems now that another Ferrari Mondial engine (perhaps "without number"?) may have been installed in the Siata? An insignificant (?) mystery that would like to be solved.

Apologies, as the following should probably go in a different topic somewhere else, but...

After years of trying to figure out why the Siata 208CS Balbo (CS*069*) was marked Tipo "400F" on the ID plate, and why the second Siata 208S spyder (BS*502*) "prototype" was marked Tipo "400L", and why an earlier Siata 208CS Vignale (CS*063) was marked Tipo "400GT", I have come to the tentative conclusion that Siata probably fitted these incorrect ID plates to the three cars for one of the three (?) following reasons. As a preamble, I should note that Siata, prior to the Salone Internazionale dell'Automobile - Torino" (Turin Salon) of 1953, advertised the appearance of new Siata "Mitzi", a small two-cylinder city car that, if you squint a bit, looks somthing like the early Autobianchi "Bianchina". This car was the true Tipo "400". If I recall correctly, the engine size was 398cc.

1) It was an "inside joke" ... that was never corrected on some of the cars afterwards?
2) It was done as a promotional gimmick?
3) All the ID plates at Siata that were available immediately prior to the Salone had already been stamped "400" by some flunky who'd had nothing else to do one day?

I asked Renato Ambrosini (winner of the Italian "Sport 750" category for 1948 and son of Giorgio Ambrosini, Siata's founder & owner) in the late 1980's and he remembered nothing of any "why" for these anomalies on the cars from the 1953 Salone Torino. But, the application of Tipo numbers to the Siata 208CS series was nothing if not wonderfully (and confusingly) inconsistent. Approximately 23-24 cars were built with tubular chassis in this series. There was a fourth Siata V8 (CS*066 Vignale) at the 1953 Turin Salon that was marked Tipo "208S" that was either labeled correctly at the show or was "corrected" before it was sold afterwards. Variations noted thus far on cars that are known and described? Tipo "208SC" (one car), Tipo "208S" (four cars), Tipo "CS" (four cars), Tipo "208CS" (two cars), Tipo "200CS" (one car), Tipo "400F" (one car), Tipo "CS208" (two cars), Tipo "400GT" (one car), Tipo "208/S" (two cars) and Tipo "208" (one car). Note that one car (perhaps two?) had changes in chassis number(s) that may have also changed their(?) given "Tipo" designation(s) during that process. One car (at least) has lost its ID plate so we may never know what tipo designation it had? We might never know if "208CS" was actually a minority type designation for this series?

John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry

 

Ed I am up to 0742TR in the individual odd/even chassis # web site in Google having started with 01C. Just to give you an idea I started this exercise last September. Just to give you an idea I am on Page 5 of the first section of 0742 and there is fascinating stuff about this car while in South America and some obscure web sites I have never seen before. When you get a chance have a look. I think you will enjoy. just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

Hi, Sorry I can"t remember from yesterday. When you hit 70 strange things start to happen. Strike the reference to South America[that was a different car]. What I should have said was the reference to deGachnang/Caillet.. just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

Great old picture ... not sure who took it.
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