I found these statements so important, that I figured they're worth their own thread: Massa's words: Forget it. Some people on here cruxified Kimi for a similar comment after a previous race. I guess reality has set in. This season is a write-off for Ferrari.
Agreed cruxified, if it was Kimi's statement. But IMO if the ruling is that the cars have to be similar to next years, it is a cross they will have to bear. In anycase IMO they must carry on and push with development of this car and by the looks they have made some good progress.
They could have scored reasonable points after these races, but idotic mistakes by a "experineced team" have let them down badly. Also you can have the fastest car on the grid, its worth nothing if you dont cross the line or run out of fuel. Typical Italians, too hot headed and couldnt organise a booze up in a brewery!!!
Catching him right after this race: No wonder. Pit crew to Kimi: "You don't need to go out again in Q1." "Oh, didn't we hook up the KERS button?" "What's the blue screen mean, again?" Pit crew to Felipe: "Oops, our brilliant pit strategy seems to have cost you third place." "Oh, by the way: we seem to have forgotten to give you enough fuel (again). Better give up two more places while you're at it." Ferrari: Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. I'm just *so* glad this F1 crew isn't working on the production cars. Speed TV said it: Ferrari's brain trust is sitting on the BrawnGP pit wall. You could give Ferrari the BrawnGP car, and they'd still blow it. Anyone want to chip in to buy Kimi and Felipe commemorative pins for the 2009 season? I was thinking they should be in the shape of a dead Albatross.
The team screwed up big time this season, but the fuel issue was due to the (standard) refuelling system not working (again). You can't blame the team for that.
Kimi as flippant as he is, is a bit of a realist. Felipe keeps up the positive note. Not anymore. Reality has set it in. Cant blame someone for waiting until after the package of modifications here in Spain. I dont think anyone here was thinking it would be enough to really, really challenge Brawn. Their car is so refined with all the time and effort put into it.
Well TonyL... I don't fully agree with you. Even if I understand your idea. Today's results aren't the mirror of the quality of the team. Ferrari did improove a lot from last race. Today Massa was quick, at least, as quick as the Red Bulls. ...But see things this way... This year Formula one championship is a "fake" one. First, the rules are some how foggy, second there is a lot of difference on running with a B version (F60B), with the KERS and a newlly created rear diffusor. The B version is a step forward but is also something that was done running after the results, so it takes time... And don't tell me that the Red bulls don't have the double rear diffusor and still they can win. That simply is not the full truth. The Brawns are away in the front... No other team performs like them! The Red Bulls are a very good car with a great aerodynamic pack and a specialy good rear section, but still they don't use the KERS! Using the KERS means a lot more for Team. They must cope with the weights and with the fuel consumption! It is obvious that having extra BHP means more consumption... Even if today there were some problems with Massa's refueling stops, according to Chris Dyer. The Brawn don't use the KERS and they were designed not to use it! A much more "clean" design and less trouble to house the KERS without messing with the aerodynamics. Then the weights. It is a lot more easy for them to build a good race strategy. Finally the reliability, no KERS no troubles! Overheating batteries, bad electronics, intermitent behaviour, etc... So I think Ferrari just have to go looking forward. I bet that they will win races this season. Kimi's results are the mirror of what I wrote. His Ferrari is suffering from strange problems!! Electric/electronic gremlins... I bet that the KERS heating sorroundings are the main cause! From my point of view what we can hope for this season is a stronger Ferrari as races go by. And we should give them our support! They are a small company capable of doing miracles. Regards,
As said in the other thread: Most likely hydraulic problems, as the throttle part that failed is actuated hydraulically. Ferrari hat to redesign the hydraulics as they were located where now the second diffusor is.
Let's not be sour loosers. The rules are the same for everybody. This championship is as real as any.
Mont, we are not too far apart in the way we think really. The point i was trying to make, whilst being somewhat sarcastic, was that Ferrari need to return to the bullet proof reliability they once had. i have written several posts on KERS cars and non KERS runners. IMO the smart teams designed their cars without the KERS system so they could optimise the weighting /ballast / fuel tank sizing etc as they deem necessary. Not only that, they have been able to produce a much slicker aero car too. With KERS fitted, the car is fundamentally changed and so the team options are greatly reduced. When KERS problems have been sorted they will then take advantage of a system thats been field tested and made more reliable. Hopefully Ferrari can take advantage of the "learning curve" they are going through. Unfortunately some teams thought they would be "top dogs" again and went for the greedy button[kers] But you have to honestly ask serious questions about how the team are operating. OK so they had less fuel dumped into the car. When the race engineer told FM to slow down to conserve fuel, what happened, he kept racing the red bull and lost 2 places. another error was running a shorter middle stint and leaving the BGP team to notch up quicker laps on low fuel and soft tyres. Whatever strategy / simulation programme they have, isnt working. How many times did we see MS do exactly the same thing and leap frog the oppostion with a good pit strategy. To cross the line first, first you must finish!! They need reliability, otherwise and car with a million wizard aero devices isnt worth anything.
Think we already have experienced a two tier rule set. Bernie was set to lose so much in penalties if Brawn/Honda's cars didn't make the grids that max would've said anything they did was ok. IMHO theres the root cause of this seasons issues and next seasons too. As well Ferrari just can't respond as fast as it used to, at all levels, for both management and rule set reasons. So its a bleak period for tifosi. Likely to stay bleak for a while too.
One car with KERS racing another without it is still a two rule set competition even if the causes for it are different. Also Adrian Newry is a hell of a designer.
So... as I understood Brawn and Toyota and Red Bull are far more wise and F1 experts then Ferrari? Ferrari just doesn't know how to read the rules... and using KERS is some how for the fools?? Come on, "foggy rules" mean different approaches. The only thing I know is that Ferrari is always leading the way and if the KERS were to be used as a mesure of trying something for the road cars in the future... Ferrari is on is way... FOOLS they are!! And were is McLaren? They just don't have the race pace. They are not fast enough and they will have a lot of hard times. Trying to go faster usually means fiding more problems to deal with. Ferrari is always looking to go faster. As for the others they just want to finish and grab some points. Even if it means going to nowhere on the championship...
With Jenson at 41 points vs Kimi and Massa at 3 points each, and Brawn GP at 68 points vs Ferrari's meager 6, realistically, Ferrari is TOAST. That doesn't mean they shouldn't fight to the last round to regain their honor and to at least beat McLaren and the other former top tier teams who seem to be in a fog this year.
If you want to call it a two rule set, fine. But nobody forced Ferrari to use KERS. In fact Ferrari agreed in the off season with the other teams not to use KERS after their first tests were not encouraging. Who used to work for Ferrari. Too bad they let him go. Right now Brawn, Toyota and Red Bull are wiser than Ferrari. And why not? Other teams have beaten Ferrari in the past. It happens. Foggy rules, yes. As was to be expected with so many rule changes. It is a good thing for F1 to once in a while toss the rules book out the window. But as I said before: The rules are the same for everybody and you can't say this is a fake championship just because they changed. Ferrari missed the boat on the change, that's all.
Almost... Because Adrian never worked for Ferrari. He loves Ferrari road cars, he drove an F430 at le Mans with Joe Maccari... Of course he is great at what he does... He was fired from McLaren because he once said that if the Mclarens used the Magneti Marelli and not the TAG technology they would preform better... Share-Holders didn't like it!
Yes, it looks better that way. I would also like to add that IF the diffuser had been judged illegal we would also have had a few races now deemed illegal, because the winning cars would have been illegal, total BS IMO. The top and bottom of it Brawn & Co were clever, Max and Bernie should have clarified the issue before the racing had even started end off.
Ferrari is out of it this season for any title hopes. At best they can fight for being the best of the midpack. Hopefully at some point the guys on the pit wall will get their heads out and realize all the ridiculous mistakes that they are making. As for the car, they should just start using races as testing days and get a jump start on next year with trying to fix the reliability issues.
He's just being logical. No matter how much Ferrari improves, their only chance at winning is race failures by Brawn GP. Since Massa has worked with Ross, he knows the chances of that happening are remote at best. I agree with him though.
