??? Renault to join pullout ??

Seems they have joined the exit crowd.

 

Korr, I hope this is not a bluff on the part of these guys and it goes through.

 

It's not a bluff.

 

Thank God, I even love the idea of 3 car teams at different venues, the question is how soon can they start for 2010? Also will the FIA kill the sanctioning of other events at countries that make a break?

 

when F-1 articles are on CNN.coms front page for 2 days straight, you know its serious

Heres the bit about Renault

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/SPORT/05/12/motor.ferrari/index.html

Maybe those mythical 2 US teams will be the only ones racing!

 

You can bet good money that Bernie is going to go all Satan on the breakaway series if it comes to pass.

My guess is that Mernie will back down from their stupid cap as it stands and a different agreement will be reached with the teams.

Beyond that, can the world support 3 series? F1, A1GP and New F1?

 

All of these "threats" are part of the on-going negotiations between Bernie and FOTA and are designed to put public pressure on Bernie. Judging by the reaction here and elsewhere they're quite successful.
IMO none of the teams will be leaving the sport (unless they are looking for cover to justify a decision already in place) and there will be an expense cap but no two tiered structure.
More importantly the distribution of revenue will be changed and the teams will get a bigger share of Bernie's pie, which is what they've rally been after all along.
All will be resolved by the time Monaco weekend is over.

 

Can we merge the "Renault" threads so we don't end up with 7 threads about this?

 

Please, how do you know it is not a bluff?

 

Please, how do you know it is?

 

Not going to be a breakaway series for F1. Who will organize it? Who will run it? Who will make the rules? Who will enforce the rules? Where will they run that is up to safety standards? And who will pay for this?

Ferrari may leave and go road racing elsewhere, but what will the likes of McLaren do if there is no breakaway F1 series? Answer, remain with the FIA. Red Bull and Toyota have other racing programs they can easily expand, both are in NASCAR.

The only venue I can think of that can answer my questions abouve and that would not mind pissing off Eccelestone would be the IRL. Can you possibly imagine Ferrari and whomever finally would walk away with Ferrari running in the IRL? And I question who ultimately would leave along with Ferrari. Do not forget, TV revenue pays for a lot of client martinis for the current F1 teams, and as I said, Bernie controls the TV revenue at this moment. The IRL does not have this kind of money to give out.

Again, because this provides a major income for the teams, Bernie controls TV rights and has contracts with the major circuit in the world for an F1 series. If he needs to, he will also find a way to fill the contractual grid. To run a breakaway "rogue" F1 series on your circuit would probably mean giving up all other FIA events. If somehow, all of the questions in my first paragraph are answered, does it seem remotely practical that all of this can happen in one year? Even in two years?

So in my opinion, there will not be a breakaway F1 series, and Ferrari is gambling at this moment and may find themselves alone in this matter. So F1 will survive without Ferrari, smaller, but they will survive. So instead of hoping that Ferrari leaves F1 as we know it, I am counting on more sane minds prevailing and a comprimise is reached by May 29.

There must be budget caps for F1 to survive in the long run. Budget caps = new teams = no shrinking grids. I am an F1 fan who has chosen the Ferrari team to support in F1. I am not a Ferrari fan that suddenly watches F1. The survival of F1 is much more important than Ferrari's continuation in F1.

 

Got that already, its called A1GP and Ferrari are the engine supplier.

 

That is not an answer to my question. I do not think you have one.

But to answer your question, I do not know for certain, that is why I asked you the question. The issue for the major teams is the two tier system of implementing the budget caps, not the actual budget caps. The FIA has already indicated they are willing to listen to whatever method that FOTA can suggest to fairly implement the budget caps. FOTA is the one that suggested the $40L mill cap. So I do not think they are too far away from a comprimise. But to give the image of strength, there is this poker playing between the particpants.

Keeping this in mind, where will Ferrari, Renault, Red Bull, and Toyota go if they leave the current F1? And let's add McLaren to this mix. From what I read, the other teams, the low budget teams including Brawn, will remain with the FIA.

I do not wish to repeat the questions I asked post #12 above, but I find it highly improbably, and illogical, for a breakaway F1 series to exist, let alone be started. It is financially impractical. Will the major teams support payroll for the time it would take to put together a new series? All the players know this, from Bernie to Luca. Renault and McLaren do not have any other serious race series in which they participate, so ultimately, they either leave motorpsorts or they stay with the current F1. Red Bull and Toyota at least have NASCAR.

Also consider Mercedes', Toyota's, and Renault's questionable long term involvement in F1, and how their sudden departure would affect a new series. I kind of think Bernie has already factored this in his thinking.

Then consider Ferrari's image. Where else do they go to give their sponsors and their marketing departments such major exposure? Once a year at LeMans? Once a year at the Indianapolis 500? I don't think so.

If Ferrari can not understand the purpose of the budget caps, and if Ferrari can only win by spending more money than the other teams, then I have no sympathy for Ferrari. They need to find another series to control. No successful major race series can survive if the teams run the program.

So my response to you is based on a little logic, some common sense, and a lot of hope that Luca is not as stupid as his actions. Nobody wins if they are not bluffing.

OK, so what is your answer to my question? ;}

 

As to F1 as a marketing tool for Ferrari bear in mind that a large part of their revenue stream comes not from car sales (a diminishing number these days) but from licensed goods. The buyers for that stuff are world wide and into F1 in a way they'd never be into anything else.

 

Doesn't matter...as long as the two stooge dictators, Max and his sidekick, aren't able to corrupt it and they stay far, far away.

 

Ultimately, if you don't have manufacturer support at this level, you carry nothing except a well known banner. It wouldn't take forever to acquire fan support in a series consisting of Ferrari, MB, Toyota, Renault, BMW (and teams using their engines) over that of an all Cossie affair with a mix of relatively anonymous strays.

I'm not of the opinion a breakaway series would be impossible to conceive nor manage. The Ferret and Smacks are shrewd customers but they aren't gods and I'm certain there are a number of individuals who could govern and organize the sport in a fair and professional manner, unquestionably better than those we hold so dear

All manufacturers would normally welcome a budget cap in sport and therefore you have have to believe it can't be the true raison d'etre behind the split. The manufacturers are clearly out to send a message to the parasitic autocracy they support yet don't require, the cap is merely an Achilles heel to use as a base to voice their discontent. As a fan, it's impossible not to support manufacturers, their interests generally tend to mirror our own. For that reason, I hope a breakaway series emerges although I agree with the majority who post, odds are against it.

 

+1

 

Where would they run and what support could they have?
Bernie most likely has the tracks tied up and the FIA controls the local clubs that supply marshals etc.

 

It matters a great deal. Without an organisation to do all those things Ron mentions it couldn't happen and there's no obvious candidate waiting in the wings ready to step in and do them.

 

So what you saying Dave, do nothing and except whatever BS is thrown at you.

 

And I thought you knew me
All I intend to do is to raise some potential concerns.
Do you think that they have any validity?
While the teams can say "We're taking our ball and won't play with you" I'm asking if they have another field to play on.
When one jumps one should have a place to land

 

I agree mate, I do know you, I agree you have to the thing in place before you shout the odds, however by the general feed back, I would say most folk would jump on board to help a break away series, I don't believe it is the best way forward, but the way it is isn't, the constant fighting is not good for the sport IMO..

 

As someone once said "something must be done".
I share your distaste for Max and don't think that Bernie has the interest of the fans or the teams in mind. My question is does "most folk" include track owners and governments who have, what I assume, are non-compete contracts with Bernie? If so where would the break-away series run?
In any case I think that the whole thing has to do with a redivision of the spoils and will be resolved by Bernie and FOTA without any drastic realignment of the sport.