0858 to be auctioned

$14,500,000 US? For a car that is no longer exists in its most important guise, but now exists in a less flattering and competitively unsuccessful form? For a car that has been for sale for years if you know where to go?

To me, 0858 is a bit like the painting 'Woman III' taken back and re-worked by Willem de Kooning into 'Girl II'! I mean it would then have a seriously compromised provenance (as in my opinion 0858 does), and why on earth would it be worth anything like the numbers suggested? Im just curious as to what the process of evaluation is, or are we just throwing numbers up in the air?

My central point is that a historical racing Ferrari that has an IMPECCABLE provenance, without stories, re-configuration, etc, is worth many times more than one that was one thing when born, and now exists as something else. No? Help me out here!

Gentlemen, lets get real. This apparent desperation at ownership of Ferrari racing history by any means neccesary is just ridiculous. PSk's modest and assessment is about all I can bring myself to ascribe to this car.

 

Joe,

Your statement about cars being born as one thing, then developed into another would render a good number of cars in very high esteem out.

As to the ridicule of values for certain cars: the market will speak. If a particular car is not for you, you eon't be willing to pay what others will, and thus not own it. That is by no means ridiculous, simply a matter of supply and demand, as with anything else.

I am not going to guess where the hammer will fall, and hope, as stated earlier in another thread about the same car, that it finds a deserving owner. She's a beaut!

 

Joe-
Please, don't take it so personally! A couple of important distinctions: provenance on racing cars as applied to all Factory entrants/editions from....essentially 1962 forward has no meaning to the standards to bear by which you are evaluating and judging "provenance"

Racing/Team cars are as a big a riddle, rolled in a mystery, and enshrouded in a fantasy, and encapsulated in anenigma... as it gets....
Over 60% of the most coveted-and EXPENSIVE Ferrari racing cars: P Cars-did not have their "original" frames by "mid season," and NONE of them had the original bodies by the Sarthe weekend.
These were all out, to win, at ANY cost, FACTORY/TEAM entries...(serial numbers, internaal numbers, be damned-WIN< WIN <WIN!!!)
If the cars were campaigned by a Concessionaire, subsequent to life as a Factory entry, it gets distinctly murkier....

Think about it, how many times do these cars actually "come out into the open?"
Let alone are allowed to be picked apart by people who-by and large-know nothing about them... aside from heresay, or what someone else has opined in a book!

There are... 50-100men left alive, who can speak with ANY true authority, as to what is and what isn't on these cars...rest assured, themajority, to ALL, have been polled as to what is their views on these cars{this car}, as they so rarely become available....

In my experience, a much wider berth is granted this class of Ferrari as opposed to SWBs, TdFs, GTOs, 250TRs and this earlier litter of chassis/motor matching stuff....
What you and I think-in the final analysis-means ZERO...it is the ONLY the guy with the money who matters....


Lastly, to compare cars such as these, with a canvas hanging on your wall-or that of the Hermitage, for that matter-is rather......."non-linear" thinking in my perspective...this stuff is NOT ART!
These are Racing cars-men died in them-in the pursuit of no higher a noble aspiratuion than to WIN, and beat the other guy....
nothing lofty there....just plain: "I'm better than the other guy."

In this case more than most: "The money talks, and the BS walks"

 

Yesterday was very interseting. Nice to see Walter and and
the MM cars at the factory.

Glad to see that the Old Mans TV antena is still on the roof.

Great to see The Monaco GP winner at speed.

Drove a few laps in the 599.

Really happy they gave me a Drivers Badge.

The Comp 275/Lusso/Daytona were wonderfull.

Had very interesting meetings and discussions.

Showed them my Le Mans Documents and finally got
some admission as to what was switched and why.

There is light at the end of a long tunnel.

0858 is a 350 Can Am. She isn't a P 4 and turning her back
into one will be as sucessfull as rehymanising Paris Hilton.

She may sell. IMO 50/50.

Cobra Daytona NS is interesting.

Good Luck to Walter, RM, and the other bidders.

Either way I'll be smiling.

 

LOL. I know of another saying: "A fool and his money are soon parted". Lets not get carried away - My point was simply that there are a fair few Ferrari Racing cars from the 60s with impeccable provenance that exist today just as they were born. The lofty $14.5m you suggested relates to such a car, and Im afraid 0858 aint such a car. Thats all I'm saying. Nothing personal, just a dispassionate point of view.

 

Joe-

The money has spoken!

11.5Million-"all in," seems to be a testament to your cautionary approach to drama laden ex-works cars!
But, none-the-less, the car blew well into 8 figure money...the purported buyer in waiting never pulled the trigger.
It seems we are BOTH somewhat correct in our separate-yet distinctly different-reading of the race car tea leaves valuation soup....

What IS intersting to me is that 0714TR DID sell for over 12M USD.....
I think it was Joe Kennedy that quipped: "only a fool holds on for the last buck"....

The SWB Cal stalling short of 6 Million "all in," is a potential cloud on the horizon which will/may cast a pall on the sales for hi-end Ferraris this coming "season"...again, the mone will speak here...
I guess we all will see from our seats here in the bleehers!

PS-Cobra Daytona coupe selling/bid to half of the last one sold-and this one being "the pick of the litter"-is somewhat more indicative of how conservative "the money" is with respect to anything OTHER than Ferrari COMPETITION cars..no?
Opinions?

 

Did not sell.

LOT 220
NOT SOLD 7.25 Million Euros

 

Completely agree, I feel that all vehicles will be 30 - 50 % off their peak pricing from late 07/early 08. And especially anything less than perfect, I reckon there will still be a market for the best, eg. the 250TR's, GTO's, best Bugatti's etc. but anything else will depend on a realistic seller. As for the Cobra Daytona's, what are they really worth, 3 mil, 6 mil, 15 mil ?????. I could never see it getting 15 mil. I could see perhaps 7 - 9 mil as a realistic value. IMHO, and I reckon the 350P4 will sell pretty quickly through a process of negotiation.

 

Great, no more 350 Can Am pictures labeled as a 330 P4!!!!!

 

Please stick with the topic of this thread. The money indeed HAS spoken about the car you predicted would go for $14.5 million. It DID NOT SELL at Eu 7.25 m.... my sole point was that you were getting carried away. I wasnt discussing Ferrari Racing cars in general.

 

Perhaps we can now also revert to the 'accepted version' of the P4's 1967 race history (by chassis #) which existed pre-RM, too !!

 

9.8M USD, Joe, unless The Governator is making you guys use Euros out there on the left coast

Best,
Dave

 

That was &#8364;7.25 Million Euros, Joe, which is actually $9.74 US. Nearly 10 Million. Wonder who actually bid that much ?

You just beat me to the punch-line, Dave !

 

agree.

 

Yes correct, I MEANT to say 7.25 Eu or $9.79 US at my calculations, still a country mile off $14.5m!!!

 

Ive even edited my post correctly...

 

And still as Joe, Paul, and Dave discuss... no word from Napolis.
Sure, it's late in the evening. I'm sure there are some still at the bar in Maranello and environs. Perhaps others are toasting over the eleventh hour back and forth necessary to close a deal on an old racing Fcar. Or not.

 

That's cheating, Joe !!

 

Yes please.

 

What an amazingly close guess. May I suggest you buy a lottery ticket immediately ?
And Richard Owen was also close.
Well done guys!
Nathan

 

Jim,

Did you pick up any new goodies?

 

I am very bad at estimating how much a racing Ferrari does exactly cost.
I do not understand the market. Nobody can foresee or foretell about the situation in the future.
But one thing is sure.
Whether a car costs more than 10 Mio. $ or € we always experience surprises and crazy bids and costs.

Example: a Mercedes racing car W154 which is owned by Mercedes Benz was offered for 154 Mio.€ or DM (German former Currency).

Crazy things always happen.

 

Capitalist.

 

Walter Medlin was THERE!!!???

Wow, that's historic, right there!

LOL, the Old Man's TV antenna.........

Then the money bid was actually pretty close, to the last time this car "no sale"d then...???

 

A little more than 0808TR! Next year we need a 250 GTO to keep things interesting.