Barrichello stinks....

Exactly. The opposite of what Flavio did to Heikki. Once a promising prospect, Kovalainen has been reduced to a joke in F1. One could argue that individuals who truly are WDC material will not be crushed by anyone, but still...

When Heikki's F1 career is (shortly) over, I bet he will be extremely competitive in some other series. Flavio just has him convinced that just because he could not come close to Alonso in his F1 debut, he is a total loser and was solely responsible for Renault's POS car. Dennis commented on that a couple of times and publicly set out to restore Heikki's confidence but obviously he has not succeeded.

Of course Heikki lives with some sort of "shrink" or psychologist which is never good news for one's mental health. ;-)

 

Logic?

 

R.B is a good, but not great driver and his best drives are behind him. That said, he's still bringing the car home in the points
and will be a large help towards the Manufacturers championship. Both of their season's progress will be determined by Ross
& the boys, and how well they can update the cars.


Mark

 

Driving, especially at this level, is a mental activity.
Which includes sharpness, reflexes, experience, concentration, awareness, the ability to look forward, and yes, supremely; confidence.

I dont book much respect with Flavio. Perhaps I'm missing something.

When Timo Glock was demoted from F1 to GP2 he started to show his stuff in "equal" cars. Flavster was asked by Windsor if anyone in GP2 caught his eye he basically laughed at Windsor for asking such a stupid question. I hear Glock is doing OK these days.

But later on Old Blue Lenses scored Pickit Jr.

Flavster needs a clown suit.

 

First of all it's a long season, so let's wait a while and see if he keeps getting his arse handed to him. Secondly, you are creating this argument about handing out trophies after qualifying like we said that was important?!?! You stated that the fact that RB was old means he couldn't have the same skills and coordination that a 23 year old had. I simply said that he must if he can drive a Formula one car faster than anyone during a race.

That has NOTHING to do with race craft or how the season has played out so far, and I don't know why you keep changing the argument.
If you think RB has had his arse handed to him, you are either not looking at the times (which someone posted here earlier in this thread) or you would argue that the points standings are the issue that make you believe that. IF that is the case, then apparently there are a few other drivers other than RB who need to be concerned, as that would imply that Jenson is much better than other multiple world champions. That is simply not the case. The other thing that you seem to be forgetting is that it is very unlikely that Jenson will be on the podium every race.

Let's see how things look after about 4-5 more races.

MB

 

Pretty much the same:

- Jenson will lead the WDC
- Barrichello will still be in the same position he had all this years at Ferrari: #2
- Ferrari will still be midfield

PS: Jenson will be WDC 2009 and Rubens will retire after the season.
PPS: Understanding F1 is not that hard.

 

I understand Mike to be saying exactly that. Surely the point is to finish races as near the front as possible and drivers are going to be judged on that, not on how well they qualify. Your observation that JB must be much better than some multiple WDCs isn't relevant because they aren't in the same car as JB, but RB is.

On the other hand RB did rather well in comparison to JB last year.

 

Indeed he did - and the very fact that everyone is so sure of the future of THIS season provides me a large opportunity to laugh heartily should something else occur, eh?

I agree on the argument (and I anticipated it was coming) in regard to the cars they are in, but the fact that RB has been within 10 thousandths of a second of Jenson all year leads me to believe he isn't handing anyone thier arse.

MB

 

I haven't changed my argument at all.

You countered my argument about not having the skill or reflexes of a 23 year old by saying he had the fastest laps. I said that was not the indicator of skill or reflexes (obviously in the context of whether a 37 year old would measure up to a 23 year old). You took that out of context and attempted to paint it that I was saying lap times don't count in terms of skill. I'll repeat... in terms of RB compared to JB, fastest laps aren't the measure - not at all. They are not the indicator of skill. Some test drivers can put in great laps, but being fast over a lap isn't what gets points. Like I said, it could be just the other drivers have a setup that is good for the whole race, as opposed to one that is bad, then gets good for a short period. As I pointed out, fastest laps do not equal skill nor do fastest laps correlate to WDC wins. Kimi had a ton of fastest laps last year and Massa handed him his ass.

The fact is, he has been getting his ass handed to him by Button thus far. And of course the point standings are what suggest that. They don't hand out trophies for fast laps. What counts is wins, and in this regard, Rubens has been getting his ass handed to him by Button. How could you see it any other way? What other metric would you suggest we use if not WDC points - since that is what both drivers are shooting for? JB has over 60% more points. Not good for RB.

Your other point about other drivers RB or JB should be worried about is silly and you know it. The greenest of F1 fans knows that you simply cannot just compare the relative speeds of two different cars to make judgements about the relative qualities of the drivers. RB needs to be concerned about one person - JB. That is the one who is kicking his ass at the moment, and RB needs to change it. If the season ends and JB is way ahead in the points, it is going to look awfully bad for RB. It's already happenning now, but for the moment RB has a short period of time to turn things around.

The season is almost 1/4 over. It's getting a bit late to say it's early in the season

 

SRT, I don't disagree with your argument that the bottom line is points. I am not saying it is "early" in the season in that we don't have any ideas. I am simply saying that it seems you are implying that "Rubens is getting his Ass handed to him" would be this:

Race one
Jenson = First, RB = Second (is this an ass whipping?)

Race Two
Jenson = First, RB has a gearbox go bad and has to drop 5 places to the rear on the grid - hmmm, still finishes Fifth

Race Three
Jenson = Third, RB has one of his brake calipers not working for 19 laps IN a DRIVING RAIN, still finishes Fourth (again I ask, is this what you consider an ass whipping?)

Race Four
Jenson - First, RB fifth. (I will give you that Jenson whipped him in this one, so that makes one)

I guess from what I have seen so far, Jenson has done much better than I thought he would, but the points at the moment don't directly tell the entire story - RB has been very very close in every event sans the most recent. Yes, points are the bottom line and the only thing that really matters, but if that is the case, then why is it when Rubens whipped his ass last year did everyone say that Jenson was the one that should be kept and RB dumped? IF POINTS ARE the ONLY thing that matters (and I agree with you that they are about 80% of what is important) then Jenson shouldn't even be on the team this year since RB whipped his ass last season, right?)

MB

 

Thing is you talk about last year RB whipped his JB's ass, why stop there, what about the years before that.

If you argue you can't you judge on actual races this season, why shorten the comparison.

Example even when RB, was in a Ferrari JB finished 1 point behind him in the WDC.

As I said I like RB, and lets face it are arm chair opinions are what they are. I think he is doing a great job at the min.But in the heat of that last race I would imagine even he would agree it's a young mans sport.

 

That we can agree on (young man's sport).
Lastly, RB was the only teammate Schumi ever had that gave him a run for his money on multiple occassions. If we are looking at long term comparisons, Jenson has a way to go to catch up with RB in just about every category. You don't get to drive Formula one cars for as long as RB has by being too slow.

MB

 

True how many more wins would he have if he was allowed to win. sorry

 

*sigh*/

 

You have no understanding of F1 have you...?

 

He doesn't stink. He just is not on the same level as Button which you can't blame because he is an old man at 37. Jenson is a good driver and the car is working for him, Rubens is simply an average driver in the car.

 

Rubens is one of the best #2 team drivers ever

 

Absolutely, consistent drives to help the team bring home the constructors with the occasional victory. The man has a bazillion races under his belt and would have been gone hundreds of race ago if he didn't make the grade. One of the best Brazilian drivers too.

 

I never said I'm an expert. But I do know that Rubens doesn't suck, at all.

There is plenty of young looking for a drive, who are coming with bucket loads of cash and sponsor deals (something the team needs). yet they still retain barrichello. Brawn tested Bruno Senna for a seat during the testing season and he obviously wasn't quick enough so they still signed rubens.

You probably know Jack Sh|t about the politics involved in F1. Jenson was quicker than rubens at the start of the season and in barcelona Rubens was quicker, but because it made more sense the championship favourite got the better strategy to win the race. Nothing wrong with that and any team will do that.

Besides, Jenson is a **** hot driver who has been around since 2000, so I think he knows a thing or two driving these cars.

 

IMO Ross B has picked a great driver pairing, and with his car, they are both shining in it.

JB has the slight edge though.

 

Indeed, BAR has been living the dream of millions for years, including being 2nd in the WDC several times thanks to Ferrari and probably again this year. He is no doubt a very wealthy man as well. I would think I could refrain from whining in public if I had all the things he's had.

That said, I think Brawn very clearly set him up to lose to Button in Spain and has eyes on Button to win WDC no matter what, so I could see how he wouldn't be in love with that idea....