Pumpkin removal etc for Dummies

Mike -

Yours is toast. Time for a Hill Bearing! That popped o-ring is the telltale sign. It's a nice long weekend... if you ring me this morning, I'd be happy to Fedex one out for Saturday delivery at free shipping. Based on the spcing of that flange, I *think* you only need the bearing, not the flange.

http://www.ricambiamerica.com/index.php?cPath=600_100033

 

Calling right now....

 

Oh, I'm in! What timing! I've got a leak under my pumpkin, too. Can I take you up on that Saturday delivery and order the flange as a precaution just in case I need (probable return)?

I haven't even opened it up yet, but it would be *GREAT* to get it changed out over this long weekend.

PLEASE, please help a 348 bro, Daniel!

 

Daniel, you are the MAN! Thank you so much for the help!

 

Done.

 

Ha! Now I've got to stay home over this long weekend while my wife takes the kids to her parents. Man, working on my F-car or visiting the in-laws for 3 days...hmmm...what has Daniel just done to me?!

 

doubt you need a flange because
1) you got a spider later in 348 production
2) the to bearing pictured looks to be of the newer version. the metal cap looking one was the first and the bearing and flange was changed in like version 3 of the 348 to bearing saga maybe around '93?
3) only early cars got twin disc. IIRC all single disc cars got the later flange and bearing
4) by now 2009 I am sure no early flanges exist

Anyway that's my WAG for today

 

Here's the old flange that is currently on my 348. Does it look compatible with the new Hill slave?

And does it look F'd up? I ask because I was *not* expecting the rain of clutch fluid that I got when I pulled off the old Valeo slave bearing (clutch fluid leak circled in blue). Ouch. God only knows what I've messed up.

Also, here are two pics of my old valeo slave.
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Talk about great customer service!

 

OK, here's an update for the 348 Brotherhood: the stock 348 Spider flange works perfectly with the new 355 Hill Engineering slave bearing. No need to replace the flange on the Spiders. That's almost sad as it is a thing of beauty. I hate to send it back to Daniel...he should put it on display in a museum.

So, once again FatBillyBob was correct.

And here's another update for the 348 Brotherhood: there's no need to order the sealing ring part # 131651 for this job, as the new Hill Engineering slave bearing includes that $60 ring for free.

That's a $686 flange and a $60 ring that the good folks at Ricambi and Hill are saving 348 (Spider) owners for the slave replacement. Kudos to them! If you've got a 348 Spider (and perhaps other late production 348's), then you don't need to buy those two parts for this job.

Kudos.

Upon close examination, my old Valeo slave appears fine. The problem may be with one of its smushed blue sealing rings. The old Valeo slave still spins fine, has no give/slack, and no signs of casing failure or blowout is visible to my eyes.

I'm going to leave the new Hill slave installed in my 348, but if I had a blue sealing ring handy I'm confident that I could make the old Valeo slave functional again.

 

I still have some questions. Is the clutch fluid supposed to leak down when you pull off the slave?


Also, Daniel sent me two small black sealing rings for free...#121813. Are those for the shaft seals? They are tiny!




Daniel, what do I need to do to get an RMA # to send back the flange and (I guess) the #131651 ring? Thanks for that fast service, by the way. Ordered on Friday and delivered Saturday morning at 10 AM to rural Alabama. Can't beat that! Ricambi rocks!

 

I didn't look up the P/N, but I think you probably have sealing rings behind the main housing. See red arrow. HTH.
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Thanks. That makes sense. I didn't have to remove the flange, so that explains why I didn't see their old counterparts.

 

are you all assembled and bled? If the pumpkin is not on yet you had do yourself a favor and bled clutch 90% by slowly depressing clutch pedal and bled at bleader. Carefully becuase I hate putting alot of force on that little "L" pin that hold the max throw of the T/O bearing. Then once it appears you got fluid flowing push the T/O bearing in and out a few times then hold fully in toward the engine and then have someone slowly push the pedal as you hold the bearing to the engineside and crack the bleder. This will expell most of the air. The final bled can be done with pumpkin on adn then you can wack the pedal as hard as you like to drive the last bit of air out. A fast 1,2,3,4 crack the bleder helps as does the a$$ end of the car up on stands to move that airpocket high at the exit point to go down the bled pipe. I acutally deleted the bled pipe and screwed the bleeder directly on the gearbox case. It fists works great saves a couple ounces. My 348 racecar was in the 2700lb territory and ate 355'3 so don't laugh!

 

I haven't bled it yet, but my plan was to use my Motive power bleeder to do a 1 man bleed on the clutch and slave cylinder. Good plan??



Also, was it normal to experience lots of clutch fluid leaking down the pumpkin when the slave was removed?

 

Not to me...but there are many people who love those things. And not really much iirc. But it does not matter unless you let the fluid drop below the inlet port on the master which is STUPIDLY HIGH on the 348 master. What idiot thought up that design? Watch out for that. Could be just residual pressure and it is like 90? degrees in ALA and things expand when hot. It is not a problem just put the new slave on and don't dilly dally.

 

Trying to get this thing buttoned up. How the heck do you get the splines lined up to get the clutch housing installed again. Since the inner and outer shaft both move, and on the clutch housing side, they are in a fixed alignment, how to you get the inner and outer shafts set up for installation?

Help!

 

Nevermind, a few choice expletives and it's on. Anyone who experiences this, PM me and I will give you the correct combination of expletives - be sure that there are no tender ears listening.

 

EDIT First, make sure that you've pressure bled your clutch slave....THEN make sure that the whole shaft is "in" as far as it can go (you will not be able to see the triple seals).

Then I raised the pumpkin up onto the shaft (barely) and had phone books stuffed underneath for it to sit on. Then I spun the starter ring inside the pumpkin (by hand) as I pushed the whole pumpkin unit toward the new Hill slave cylinder. The outermost starter ring will spin freely on the shaft until you reach the splines.

That didn't put it on very far, though. So I tapped it with a padded hammer, verified that all of the studs were lining up with the holes in the pumpkin, and then I pressed the pumpkin on with my tennis shoes/feet while laying on my back.

Heck, even if that doesn't work for you, it should at least make you laugh at me!

On my 348 Spider, the top left stud is longer than all of the others. Once I had the pumpkin far enough in to get a bolt onto that stud, I was then able to use it to bolt down and pull the pumpkin in the rest of the way.

I tried FatBillyBob's historic trick of using the long starter motor bolt to pull the pumpkin together, but on mine it didn't work...the long top left stud worked for me, though.

 

I currently have the pumpkin off and though I have done this job before, I have a couple of questions as well....

I have a 94' 348 Spider but my Slave unit has the black seals...

1.) Will the new Hill Engineering T/O units work with my existing flange?? Or do I have to replace the flange...Most likely I am just going to replace the seals and keep my cast iron unit...

2.) I have a ton of gunk and grease behind the T/O slave unit and all over the bell housing is black...Is that a triple seal leak? I have ordered new triple seals already and plan on installing them....

3.) Is my flywheel comprimised and should I resurface it and how do I know if it is comprmised...I dont have any tell tale signs such as heavy vibration or hot start problems...

4.)The flywheel job scares the pants out of me to disassemble that thing with the special ring nut tool and torque wrench as well all the little parts in that thing...For someone like me that I would rate as competent but not anywhere close to a detailed mechanic, should I try to open it and refill it...

5.) I am going to do the clutch also since it seems like it is just a matter of unbolting the pack, replacing the plate (single plate) and torque it and aligning it correctly...am i oversimplifying it? (as i have never replace the plates before)

 

anyone?