CS Price check

I felt the same way about the alcantara.

 

I don't believe ownership automatically constitutes knowledge of the market. Unfortunately there's quite a bit of misleading or erroneous information from owners and non-owners.

 

No argument there.

Ignoring the huge amount of tire kickers -- It appears to me that the one constant is non-owners always think that they can get a clean, well documented car for 10-30K AND and owners are usually a little optimistic. BUT market value is what a seller will accept and a buyer will pay, it takes both. That means there is not a transaction until the owner agrees to sell. The market isn't set solely by what the non-owner wants to pay.

 

If a Seller is wants to ask above market prices, I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is the information that is posted that is categorically wrong. Note I had to correct your post by adding back the entirety of mine. which I have put in parentheses above. You purposefully and disingenuously clipped out the qualifying statement I made to alter the perceptions of mine. this is a very good example of the disinformation I am alluding to.

Whether I have filled out information to your liking is inconsequential to my knowledge of the F-Car markets I am involved with frequency. I don't own GM but I can tell you everything you need to know about the present market for their stock. Is every F-Car owner a member of the Owner's Forum?

I would suggest that "what is old" is the continued depreciation of your F-Cars cars value, assuming you have one. Altering posts casts dispersions on you that will not benefit you one iota in the future.

"No one loves the messenger who brings bad news" ~Sophocles

 

I'm somewhat suprised that one would prefer the Alcantera over leather. To me, the leather combined with the carbon fiber lets you know there is a relationship with the Enzo. I have yet to see an Enzo with Alcantera. I may be a bit biased since my car has black leather, but, I was so excited when I found the car and it had leather.

G

 

Leather sucks in the CS (I'm just saying that because Cig1 is a bud ... ha ha).

Seriously - in my opinion (which doesn't count for much) is that the leather will wear better than the alcantara and is more unique since most Stradales came with alcantara.

That being said - I think the alcantara is as much a part of the Stradale as the Challenge wheels, carbon interior, and lexan read window. It's a part of the whole that defines the Stradale as a race inspired version of the track car.

 

I think it's great that people have the option. I would have never bought a CS with leather but having said that I'm sure there's just as many people that wouldn't have bought the car with alcantara.

 

As for all these low prices being thrown around - you CAN'T believe all of them based on hearsay unless you know a specific instance where a CLEAN NO STORY car sold for a specific amount and even then ONE sale does not make a market. I know someone who bought a 15k mile F430 for $115,000 six months ago. Was that the market then or even now?? Hardly.

The best example of a recent sale was Modenfan's car with 20k miles which sold for $130,000. That was a CLEAN NO STORY higher mileage car. I actually think someone would have paid $135,000 for it. Cars in the $120k range are going to either have severly HIGH MILES, STORIES or be a ONE OFF situation where someone has immediate financial pressure (just like the F430 example above).

I still think prices are in the following general area:

1) Up to 5k miles - $170,000 to $185,000
2) Around 7.5k miles - $160,000 to $170,000
3) Around 10k miles - $150,000 to $160,000
4) Around 15k miles - $140,000 to $150,000
5) 20k miles or more - $130,000 - $140,000

 

I MYSELF JUST PUT A "AROUND 10K" MILE CAR AS YOU HAVE SHOWN IN MY GARAGE FOR LOW 130'S......NO STORIES FULL DIAGNOSTIC CHECK THRU A VERY THOROUGH PPI....THAT'S MY EXAMPLE ONLY.

I CAN'T VERIFY ANY OTHER PRICES EXCEPT THE ONES SHOWING UP IN THE USUAL LOCATIONS FOR SALE WITH STICKERS 155 AND BELOW ARE DISAPPEARING. THE CARS ABOVE THIS ARE AND WILL BE ON THE MARKET FOR A LONG TIME.

ON THE LEATHER PEOPLE HAVE DISCUSSED I JUST (FOR ME ONLY) FEEL IT DOESN'T FIT THE CS. AGAIN MY OPINION. I'VE GOT LEATHER IN CRUISERS AND LEATHER ALCANTRA MIX IN THE MORE TRACK CARS IN MY STABLE. I REALLY LIKE HOW THE ALCANTRA FEELS AND HECK ISN'T REALLY JUST A DIFFERENT TYPE OF LEATHER ANYWAY

Sorry about the Cap's I didn't notice my Cap Lock was on

 

I purposely cropped your message. The point, despite your commentary, was I don't think you are a buyer. That makes your commentary about I wouldn't pay x all blah blah blah. No real buyer = no real transaction.

As to the rest of your post, also amounts to blah blah blah. I stand with the definition of the market as taking a buyer AND a seller. What you, or any real buyer, will pay is irrelevant if the seller won't sell for that amount.

Tipo815, agreed.

 

You have to go further than that. To know "market" you have to classify F-Cars very precisely. E.g., where is it, what items are missing, how and when and if it was maintained, aftermarket parts, modifications.......add about 50 more checkpoints, through in an aggressive PPI, and a few or several failed checkpoints can move the car's value as much as 20%. In the end, I have six or seven pricing classifications, using two classifications to average "market".

IME, F-Car owners under time constraints sell to Dealers mostly. Financial pressure on an F-Car owner is a subset of constrained time sales. WAD, there are many more constrained time sales these past couple of years and this will continue, further driving prices down as it has in the past.

Pricing or sale prices?

 

FWIW, the buyer backed out from buying my car and bought a Scud instead so mine's still available. If anyone is interested it's at AG in Calabasas and ask for Mike Koss.

 

Originally Posted by Woojer

If a Seller is wants to ask above market prices, I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is the information that is posted that is categorically wrong. Note I had to correct your post by adding back the entirety of mine. which I have put in parentheses above. You purposefully and disingenuously clipped out the qualifying statement I made to alter the perceptions of mine. this is a very good example of the disinformation I am alluding to.

Whether I have filled out information to your liking is inconsequential to my knowledge of the F-Car markets I am involved with frequency. I don't own GM but I can tell you everything you need to know about the present market for their stock. Is every F-Car owner a member of the Owner's Forum?

I would suggest that "what is old" is the continued depreciation of your F-Cars cars value, assuming you have one. Altering posts casts dispersions on you that will not benefit you one iota in the future.

"No one loves the messenger who brings bad news" ~Sophocles

As I pointed out and why, imo.

You would be wrong but, frankly, I don't give cat's pink hiney what you think. :0)

If there is anything that I have repeatedly posted, ad infinitum, is this very point. In your glee to attack me like a muppet on crack , you, again, disingenuously glossed over this truth.

Agreed with what?

 

Potential sale, not a sale.

 

Just look at the asking prices here and on Cars.com and be sure of this... nothing is selling for the asking price. Challenges Stradales are great Ferraris but thee market for all cars is weak, very weak.

 

These prices seem about $15K high if one looks at what is selling versus what is sitting on the market unsold. My local dealer told me that clean, no stories cars in good colors were mid $140s give or take for 7,500 to 10,000 mile examples.

This one has 8,850 miles and a Buy it now of $149K and the owner claims it is clean with no issues. Nice color combo too.http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ferrari-360-2004-Ferrari-Challenge-Stradale_W0QQitemZ120426783733QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item1c09fee3f5&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A3|39%3A1|240%3A1318

 

What do you think the discount off sticker in today's market should be for a new f430 Spider if the dealer has several?

 

i agree my gt3rs leather/alcantra is the best seat for comfort..that would be a great combo for the CS indeed.

 

At frist glance, this would seem to be an obvious comment. When factored into the F-Car market, it states very clearly haw drastically the market has flipped.

 

First, the fact that he has an inventory should make no difference in your personal approach to pricing. The market is flooded with lo mileage 430s and there is a substantial hangover of new inventory that has yet to move.

To pressure for the best price, find one or two 430s used that you truly would be willing to buy, go to your Dealer or Dealers of choice and plop down those numbers and ask him what they will do for you. Get ready to push off from the table and leave...at least once in this negotiation.

See where that takes you. Ask when the 142 is due in (by offering a potential deposit). If he says Sept 2009, keep in mind how that will further devalue the new, unsold 430s and the existing pre-owned marketplace.

How much over $175K you are willing to pay is your judgment call.

 

Originally Posted by Tipo815

As for all these low prices being thrown around - you CAN'T believe all of them based on hearsay unless you know a specific instance where a CLEAN NO STORY car sold for a specific amount and even then ONE sale does not make a market. I know someone who bought a 15k mile F430 for $115,000 six months ago. Was that the market then or even now?? Hardly.

The best example of a recent sale was Modenfan's car with 20k miles which sold for $130,000. That was a CLEAN NO STORY higher mileage car. I actually think someone would have paid $135,000 for it. Cars in the $120k range are going to either have severly HIGH MILES, STORIES or be a ONE OFF situation where someone has immediate financial pressure (just like the F430 example above).

I still think prices are in the following general area:

1) Up to 5k miles - $170,000 to $185,000
2) Around 7.5k miles - $160,000 to $170,000
3) Around 10k miles - $150,000 to $160,000
4) Around 15k miles - $140,000 to $150,000
5) 20k miles or more - $130,000 - $140,000

Yes, your post reflects the market as I experience adding that these values are today's values and the market IMO will continue a downward trend. Price erosion will continue through the summer, imo.

 

I don't think cross shopping of F430s and the CS can be discounted at all. A year ago, an 06 F430 F1 coupe and a CS were very similarly priced. I don't know if the CS will be able to maintain a $50,000*+ premium over an F1 coupe...

*(don't jump down my throat about the amount... you all know what I mean)

 

Have fun discussing about the CS while I go enjoy driving mine.J/K