Still Not Feelin' the Love

This was recently posted on the SCM website under Affordable Classics. I hope the link translates.

http://www.sportscarmarket.com/AffordableClassics/2009/July//

A few (blackhanded, in one instance) positve comments in an article the tone of which is generally negative. It's about time that the 365/400/412 receives some well-deserved accolades instead of getting bashed in the press. Am I the only one who's getting tired of this?

 

Hi There, I am rarely on this forum, but noticed your provocative thread title, and had to respond. Since we're all basically in group therapy on this board (car sickness) I know how you feel with "that car" for whom pundits, some 'know nothings' and other uninitiated detractors take glee in public flogging. For I - let me admit in public - am a Pantera owner.

That car sits amid other Fcars I've got, holding its head up high in my estimation, but in that of 'the world', skulks to the back of the room. Undeserved? Mostly. Dated opinions? Quite. Surface skimming 'known' faults merely to rehash? Definitiely. Overlooking the flipping heck out of the attributes? Yes, but that means they'd have to be, like you, an individual who did NOT 'buy into' the other notions. You found your own path, your own likes.

So, I know how it feels. Can't change the world on that. I know it's tiresome too. But in time, things may change. I remember when people wanted to shoot a 330GT 4 headlight car just for being ugly; now a solid investment at least partially lauded for its uniqueness. When I had my Dino, most people at the parts counter sneered something about "...getting a REAL Ferrari." Times change. Smart people do too.

Maybe you're just ahead of the curve.

ONE thing you could do, right now, that wouldn't hurt: Write a nice toned letter about the attributes, 'attractor factors' for you, and how the public responds to your car to any/all media you think might print it. Opinions can most certainly be swayed, but not if they go unvoiced.

 

A Hudson,

Thank you for saying positive things about the Series 1 330 GT; by your definition, my Series 2 almost collectible! When I bought my 330, I could have bought a 250 PF Coupe for similar money (they were considered boring) and I was offered a 20k mile Lusso with SNAP exhausts for $75k (unfortunately, this was more than I could afford).

That said, I have kept my car not because it is collectible or an investment but because it's fun. I was seriously considering adding a 5 speed 400 or 365GT/4 before an engine rebuild sucked my second car funds dry. Personally, I like this series (though the 400 5-spd clutch is a bit heavy), and look forward to owning one in the future. However, this series is a true enthusiast's car as, in my opinion, it will be a terrible investment.

Regards,

Art S.

 

Amazing isn't it? The 400 series is slammed for being cheap to buy but with the same maintenance costs as, say, a 365 GTC/4 that costs 4 times as much. Apparently high maintenance costs aren't so important as the price of the car rises.

I look at it as getting 90% of the C/4 experience with better rear seats and at 30% of the price. The maintenance is a push with the C/4 so the value proposition is there in spades.

There is no other Ferrari front engined V12 available for less than twice the price of the best 400 series car on the planet. They may not ever take off price wise but they also are not likely to ever have any depreciation, either.

 

John,

A 330GT or a 365 GTC/4 cannot be properly, proffessionally restored for less than the asking price of a nice version of one of these cars. However, a 250 Lusso can be totally restored for a fraction of its value. Think of it this way, if I bought a 250 Lusso in 1997 for $75K and had it restored for $150K, and the cost of the money and misc cost was another $75K, my cost of ownership would still be -$200K to -$300K. I bought the 330GT, my cost of ownership will likely be $0 to $10K. If I bought a 400 (which was similar money to the 330 in 1997), my cost of ownership would likely be higher because the cost of ownership is similar (though hopefully, the 400 does not need to be restored, just maintained).

The point is, you get a ton of car for the purchase price with a 365GT/4-400-412 (actually 2 tons; 400s are pretty heavy ) but all of your maintenance and restoration costs are sunk costs - meaning, you will not recover the money and effort spent on improving the car. This makes the cost of ownership relatively high. As long as you know that going in (and get a reletively good car) you will have a great experience!

As I said in my previous post, this series is for real enthusiasts!

Regards,

Art S.

 

The 400 is one of those cars that is easy to pick on because it is a Ferrari, and Ferrari is often at or near the top. So it's fun (for some) to knock Ferrari down. But the 400 series isn't as bad as it is made out to be. It's a handsome looking car.

If you don't care about resale value and want to have a proper front V12 GT, you can't go wrong with the 365/400/412. You have to maintain a Ferrari anyway, no matter what model it is. Here you get the car virtually for free.

 

A 17 year run on the most expensive Ferrari of the day.... speaks for itself on these cars. I am glad they haven't gone off the deep end yet so we can still use them. I dug these cars the first time I laid eyes on one whilst a student in London in the late 80's....I am also a Pantera owner.
Rick

 

Gregg,

would it make you feel better if i told you that i love your car ?

 

AHudson—Thank you for the very thoughtful and well-crafted reply. You are quite the scribe. I guess it doesn’t hurt to buck the trend or be ahead of the curve, especially when doing so puts you in the seat of a vintage V12 thoroughbred with understated, but yet quite elegant, styling, which as CharlieHorse and Ricar note, can be acquired at a reasonable price, driven and thoroughly enjoyed.

I think Art also has the right perspective. You have to know what you are getting yourself into and, if prepared, your experience should be very rewarding.

Brett—Yes. That would make me feel a little better provided that it doesn’t also mean that you've swapped out the black 400 and are now using my car as your daily driver…

 

I feel the love everytime i drive my puppy!! so if it makes me happy, thats what counts!!

 

Kerim,

You sir have hit the nail on the head. This is why I have kept my car all of these years and continued to poor money into it!

Regards,

Art S.

 

Most people who criticize the 400 have never driven let alone owned one, so their opinions don't mean much to me - they just pass on received wisdom. I love the design, the engine, the sound, and the experience. I love the fact that I can take the family out for rides. I've got a beautiful Ferrari V12 GT in my garage for less than $30k (OK, I've spent a lot on it since buying it). I'm happy.

Aidan

 

+1 My thoughts exactly!

 

I love the 365/400 2+2 models in the right color.

Same goes for 4HL 330 2+2's, though they're not a deal anymore.

 

I,m the best of both worlds:a 365GT4 and a S1 330
the 365 can be a daily driver if you wish(and don,t mind paying the fuel bills),the 330 is the show pony.I welcome the critisism the 4 lights get,at least it can,t be confused with:maybe thats a Daytona or maybe it isn,t (I,m sure that will raise a few hackles).

 

The magazine's title is Sports Car Market, market being the operative word. These cars are indeed miserable if viewed as an investment so nothing new here. At least they didn't call it "frumpy" as Brock Yates did (Who's frumpy now, Mr. Yates?)
While I generally enjoy SCM an article bashing something near my heart just hurts. I had just let my scrip expire so hadn't seen this.
I've owned mine a long time and have only seen it's value slowly decline, the only exception being the crazy period after Enzo's death when anything V-12 powered was expensive. I have little to complain about compared to it's original owner who traded his Daytona towards it.