FBI wrecks an F50 in Lexington Ky

+1....Never underestimate the power of stupidity!

 

There is a lot of hope that the VIN will be revealed when the full story on this car's long and interesting history is revealed. For now, however, it seems it's being kept under wraps - with good reason.

 

I am guessing that by slick tires, they meant slippery.

 

It DOES seem a very unusual way to treat 'evidence....."

I guess there wasn't a Zip Lock bag big enough....

 

Between the cryptic responses and one of the comments from the news article I'll take a wild guess. Was this car ever stolen from a dealership?

 

that was my thought as well. but then how did Rufmd ever get his hands on it? i seriously doubt its the same car.

did it have ohio plates that read "F 50" at one point?

 

A quick google of a previously mentioned name reveals a person with a history of dispensing meds improperly and a history of Tax court hearings. huhm, am I warm?

 

No

 

Who is that ? Nothing to do with this case, but sounds like an interesting story.

 

There was a name mentioned in one of the previous post. I googled and found an article about a Kentucky doctor who was prescribing pain meds illegally and also going to court a lot over taxes. Just a shot in the dark. Obviously today was a slow day in court.

 

ok, I see it now....you are referring to this post...


http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=138685806&postcount=55



Never knew that story, but definitely unrelated to this matter

 

If you google "dr. grigsby arrest kentucky" you can read the results. Whenever a doc gets in trouble, there is always a tax/medicade/medicare inquiry to follow in most cases

 

I did the exact same thing, actually. I had not heard that specific story but have heard several like it sadly.

 

No, that's a different car, still in Cincinnati as far as I know

 

Well, essentially - Yes.

In the United States, law enforcement may seize any vehicle if the police SUSPECT that it might belong to a drug dealer or have ANYTHING to do with drug trafficking. One of the DEA's favorite tricks in the "war on drugs" has traditionally been to seize whatever they like, and, when evidence is insufficient to go to trial, simply keep their booty. Without ever being formally charged, the (previous) owner has no legal recourse to petition his property back. (PM me for details of a friend who lost his motorcycle this way if you're interested.)

I'M NOT SAYING THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED HERE. RufMD has stated categorically that this incident has nothing to do with a drug bust or drug trafficking. Knowing nothing whatsoever about this incident or the people involved, I'm withholding judgment.

But just by way of answering your question, Yes, law enforcement essentially has carte blanche to seize whatever strikes their fancy if they can make anything resembling a credible claim that the vehicle MIGHT have something to do with drug trafficking.

Anytime the US government declares "War," whether on drugs, poverty, terror, or anything else, it's code for "the old rules don't apply here."

 

Not really. If they want to seize something they need a seizure warrant signed by a Federal judge which must contain probable cause that ill gotten gains were used to purchase it. Those warrants are also reviewed by United States attorneys before they go to the judge. There is a lot of oversight in the process. Don't just think that some agent decides he wants the car and goes and takes it.

Scott

 

And then there is a forfeiture hearing before a judicial body depending on the jurisdiction. Despite the last 8 years, I hear due process does still exist in parts of the country.

 

I'll try--I'm a lawyer and also a part-time police officer, but not in Kentucky. Correct answers, if there are any, will probably vary by state, actually Kentucky calls itself a Commonwealth, complicated enough already?

In general: Heck no! If I caught an FBI Special Agent or anybody else driving a vehicle in my town without the consent of the owner, I'll find out why, and if there was not some official reason, they're going to jail for grand larceny. Then again, would you believe that it's still not clear whether a federal agent performing a federal law enforcement function can be arrested and prosecuted for violating state criminal law. The agent or officer in question could also be civilly sued for conversion and, depending on the circumstances, for violation of civil rights. But we don't know from the story whether the agent had the owner's permission or just what the deal was. If the agent did have some legal right to be driving this F50, and then wrecked it by negligence, the federal government could be liable for the damage under the Federal Tort Claims Act, which holds the federal government to the same standards of negligence as a normal person in the state the incident happened in.

Probably wouldn't be street legal, at least the safety inspectors won't pass MY car when the rear tires are worn down. Yes, the driver operating any vehicle on public roads is generally the captain of the ship and responsible for everything about the vehicle. But federal employees on federal business may be exempt from state motor vehicle laws, unless maybe they're driving a privately owned vehicle, oh all right I just don't know. Also, how do we know the car was on slicks?

Since it's in Kentucky, I don't really know, but in North Carolina, the State Highway Patrol has the final responsibility for wreck reports. In city limits, the city police will usually write the report, and in some counties, the sheriff's department may write them. In my county when I was a deputy, we left all of those to the Highway Patrol. But since this incident involves an FBI agent, probably these guys

http://www.fbi.gov/facts_and_figures/accountability_compliance.htm

are already involved. They will ask pretty closely as to how an FBI agent came to be driving a very expensive high-performance exotic, and wrecked it while doing 40mph on a straight stretch of dry road. I sure would like to know, but I'll reserve judgment, because as I have learned many times from law practice and police work, things are only rarely as they seem. Ancient cop saying: Believe nothing you hear, and maybe half what you see.

 

Yes, that's how it's supposed to work, under the Constitution.

My friend's motorcycle was confiscated on the spot, without a warrant, only because it had a false gas cap that concealed a small space to "stash" stuff. This was how that model of Suzuki motorcycle came from the factory. Because it "could" be used to conceal contraband, that was all the officer needed to take the bike - and because he was never formally charged with any crime, he had no legal recourse to try to get it back.

In the "War" on drugs, due process often does not enter into the equation.

 

Correct. I should have been more accurate in my initial post. When they take the car, it is a seizure. After they seize the car there is a forfeiture proceeding in front of a judge where the judge decides if legal title can be forfeited to the government. You have both civil and criminal forfeiture in these cases.

Scott

 

Then there is something your friend isn't telling you.

Scott

 

Small world indeed. I know tons of funny used car dealer stories and the FBI, IRS,....
Some of the dealers are still around. GTO's and SWB's part of some of the stories.
Here I stopped in to read about an F50, and find you hurling epithets (bad words ). Get over yourself. No wonder I posted words from Carly Simon's "You're So Vain" in one of my early return posts to you. You responded by complaining like a little girl then to the mods while breaking TOS.
At least we know you're vulturing this car. Good news is there won't be many miles put on it for awhile.

Tree looks like it hit the tub upright at the door. If top wasn't on, this could have been worse, but it doesn't look good.

Car could have been stored in the seized warehouse, with nothing to do with the case. Happens a lot with other commodities. Whatever happened to the Algar F50 test-drive car? Joe, was that you?

God, read more of the thread and found more "Secret Agent 00Joe"

Go back and get better coaching from the 3rd grade girls, Joe. It's "I know you are, but what am I?" Not very good sarcasm nor wit. Takes away from that "insider" vibe.

I did hear, however, that the driver has a really really nice yellow 355.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=13936898 I've always liked Richard Pryor and Chevy Chase.

 

I think two issues are being confused here. If the Police stop you for probable cause and if your vehicle doesn't meet registration/insurance/safety requirements they can temporarily impound your vehicle.

The permanent seizure of any property is subject to legal proceedings as outlined by others.

Jas's postings re: this having nothing to do with Drugs are correct as are his postings that the FBI has not "seized" this vehicle nor will the Government be auctioning it off.

There are several interesting musings in this thread.

I agree with Big Tex about a good use for Zip Lock Bags.

 

Why the big mystery? is there a court order prohibiting public discussion of this matter?
The lack of information simply promotes meaningless speculation, which is never helped by assertions of others that they know the "real" story but are not telling. This smacks of playground games among kids. If someone knows the facts and is not specifically prohibited from telling anyone else, post the info and let's be done with the speculation.