Ex-Challenge car race at FCA National Event?

Have heard there might possibly be a race for ex-Challenge and GT cars at the upcoming FCA National meet. I really can't get a straight answer on this. I've heard they want to, but nothing concrete. Anyone know anything further?

CW

 

Nothing here at Road America that I know of, but we have discussed it as part of a theme in 2011 if the SE gets the national meet. If anyone else has an interest in this, if you are at Road America, look for this car and please introduce yourself.
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The regular challenge races are at the end of this month at Road America, Im not sure if they are running at the national meet though.

 

No, this isn't a regular Challenge race. This is for ex-Challenge cars (348C, 355C, 360C and 430C) and GT Cars (348GT, 360GT and 430GT). There was a race earlier this year at Sebring. The discussion was that there would be other events at VIR, Watkins Glen and Road America during the National Meet. I have no information other than this.

CW

 

We are currently working on putting together an entire challenge car FCA series for all none current cars. We need to go before the board for approval. I'm not sure if this will happen in time for the national. But when it does the races will include an event at the national, Watkins Glenn, Daytona & Sebring with other TBA. The vision is for five races with points and sponsor participation. There is a name: "The Ferrari Trofeo"

 

This sounds about correct. Thanks.

CW

 

That would be sweet !

 

It sounds good to me, but I'd want to feel out the grid a little. Hopefully, no yahoos show up.

I have to be honest, but at FCA events, you never know who shows up. What licenses do they hold? What experience do they have? I have little interest in trading paint with a retired Challenge car. Lots of questions to ask and have answered. Same issues with HSR and other historic or vintage groups, but I'm hoping this will gain some traction. I'd be interested in putting a car on the grid.

CW

 

You talk a big game so why the anonymous profile? What cars do you have or plan on running?

FCA TRACK events are very organized and strict regarding safety. At the end of the day, does anyone want to really trade paint with anyone else? Any sanctioned RACE event would require some type of competition license as insurance would require this.

 

I feel no need to disclose anything to you about what cars I own and race to satisfy your curiosity. Thus, you can either choose to ignore my comments or weight them accordingly. Up to you. However, let's use a hypothetical. Assuming you brought out, say, a 430GT car, which costs in the neighborhood of $500K and has a decent provenance, and given the fact that there's absolutely NOTHING that can make that car worth more at the end of a Trofeo race but a lot that can make it worth less, how comfortable would you be going into turn 1 with a bunch of 348C, 355C and 360C cars? Likely, you'd be through and away with them all in the mirror, but...you never know. That's racing. Moreover, you're right that people don't actually WANT to trade paint. But, it happens. Call it what you will. A racing incident. The red mist. The fog of war. The bigger wallet than talent department. A lot happens on a race track in the heat of the moment. Sometimes, it's just poor judgment. I am willing to risk assets for the fun of it and to enjoy myself. But, I'm not insane, either. Until I learn more about what the qualifications, tech and so forth are, I'm interested. That's about all. And, as this nascent series matures, we'll see.

However, I've been to FCA track events, and I've had a LONG relationship with my local dealer that puts them together. So, I know the principals and how it's managed. I've raced in Grand Am sanctioned events. I've raced in Skip Barber events. I've driven at lots of track days. I've seen good and bad driving at all of the above. PARTICULARLY at the Grand Am sanctioned races, btw. Doesn't guarantee anything. I've seen paint traded. I've seen guys wad up several hundred thousand dollar cars. And, I've seen them take other guys out along with them. I've been on track with slower guys who don't know what a mirror is. I'm talking a big game? Not really. The point is: know who you're on track with. When you're pulling out $50K, $100K, $200K or more out of the trailer, there's enough at risk. Add in erratic driving, and who knows what will happen.

The FCA events I've driven at do have some level of organization, which is more than can be said for some other events. Granted. However, I've also had issues with the clumped slower cars in with faster ones. Different classes (and abilities) create LOTS of opportunities for chaos. And, people are often happy to accommodate. So, the issue is one of safety and risk. Don't read any more into it than that.

CW

 

Again, cheap and senseless writing from a self-proclaimed wise man that cowardly hides through his anonymity. Take it to the Porsche forums.

 

How about you get a few hundred posts more. Otherwise, you're on mute...

Go pound sand.

CW

 

A few hundred posts? I actually have a life.

 

Oh, you must mean the one in Spain?

Whatever.

CW

 

Lumberman, fwiw, you're missing CW's point and unknowingly messing with a guy who's been around the marque a long time. CW is right when he says it's about safety and risk, and I share his concerns. I think FCA could have a successful club race program, but to be successful the series will need a tough administrator. If FCA sanctions a Challenge series style crash fest, they won't have a second season.

I'd be willing to buy a car and join a well run series. Heck, depending on the rules, it might be fun to build a one off Maranello and race it; 360s and Maranellos are (relatively) cheap, and a lot of owners prefer to do their own thing, rather than buy factory competition cars. Everyone in the Ferrari community would benefit, many financially, from a decent club race series.

I hope it gets done.

 

I can see the lumbermans concerns. This race series is putting together a lot of different levels of experience and speed into one group which can invite trouble. I am sorry, but FCA events are not very organized. I don't care what you say. I do disagree with the SVRA and HSR comments. I think SVRA/HSR do a good job. Skip barber everyone is on the same level. I think the problem with the FCA event will be the word "RACE". Inexperience and racing don't mix.
You are going to have to stress to the drivers this is for fun not racing. No one wants to crash their car at FCA, but it does happen. If someone is faster be friendly and let them by. The organizer has to let everyone know its for fun and to relax!!! If someone is too aggressive, NOT FOLLOWING THE RULES, driving to slow, too old, too little experience or spins get them OFF the track. The organizer needs to have some BALLS and stand by what they say. No matter how much money the guy has or who he knows in FCA. If he is dangerous to the group then get him or her off that track or put them in a different run group with an instructor.
The drivers need to be signed off by an instructor not by who they say they are. I've seen drivers lie about their experience all the time.
I think the last race at Sebring was prefect because it was small, controled and everyone knew each other somewhat. The organizers did a good job. No I was not their. I just heard about it. Everyone was their for the right reason, "FUN".

 

Gatorgreg,

Agree 100% with your post, as I think WCH would, too. But, these weren't Lumberman's concerns. They were mine and WCH's. Re-read Lumberman's posts. He's asserting that FCA events are "very organized and strict." This contradicts your post.

This could grow into a fun and successful series, and I hope it does. There are plenty of ex-Challenge cars floating around out there looking for events. You could easily see a 20+ car grid. And, I've expressed interest in it. So, hopefully, we'll all be at some event somewhere enjoying our toys. But, the more successful, the more cars, and the more crowded.

Anyway, I had heard good things about the event at Sebring, too, but it was a relatively small grid (certainly <20 cars and, IIRC, <10 cars). And, Sebring's a relatively long track. So, not so crowded. Put 20+ cars on the grid at LRP, and it's a different story (not that LRP is being bandied about as a track, but it serves for discussion purposes). And, if driver's know each other (and are familiar with their on-track driving), it makes for a much better event.

I've been to FCA events that, frankly, needed a bit more organization. Slower cars needed to be bumped down to slower run groups, otherwise they're just moving chicanes. They weren't. Probably because nobody wanted to tell the drivers they shouldn't be out there in the faster run groups. It could be a dangerous challenge, no pun intended, to have a 348C and 430GT car on-track at the same time. Their speed and lap time differentials will be significant. And, all it takes is one brain fade moment or not watching in the mirrors for this to end badly.

CW

 

Got it with regards to the post. You are right. If FCA promotes safety and not racing everyone will go home with their cars and have a good time!! It's a big challenge!!

This is what happens when Ferrari and Porsche get together.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0g_9-T4PZo

 

Sorry to hear it.

There are plenty of sanctioning bodies that can step in and run this program, and these are the details we need to learn.

Years ago, I did an exhibition race at Mont Tremblant. They staggered the start, based on your qualifying time. The slowest left first. The next slowest was given a calculated gap based on the qualifying times multiplied by the number of laps. And so forth until they were through the grid. The idea being that we'd all arrive at start finish in 20-laps at the same time! Never raced in that format before or since. And, it has inherent problems, of course, such as sandbagging the qualifying session.

But, the local boy won...hmmm, I wonder how that happened!

CW

 

Well, at least he didn't hit the viper on the warm-up lap! I've seen that happen before, too! Short race, though.

CW

 

This is what happens when you have amateurs racing together. It's a dangerous sport. This new challenge series needs to be taken seriously. FCA has to change it's ways. Or just make it a gathering of Challenge cars and run it as a open group session. Which is what I reconmmend.
A good example of controlled chaos was Cavallino this year. You had everything out there. I ran off the track because someone decided to take a little nap at the end of the straight in their FXX. True story, I approached the track steward about my off road experience and his reply was "He use to be a good driver". I decided then and their Cavallino was too dangerous. There was no control at all at Cavallino this year. The last session of the day was like driving in a parking lot at Publix. Everyone was all over the place. No black flags. It was crazy.
That's my fear in all of this. A bunch of experience drivers (aka Yahoos) with high horsepower cars in a race environment. It's a deadly combination!

 

"A bunch of inexperienced drivers with high horsepower cars in a race environment."

 

And in years past. I no longer attend Cavallino for similar reasons.

CW

 

What the heck happened at Road America! I'm going there for the FCA2009 meet, and this really makes me take notice of what can happen. I assume that at this level he had a HANS. I don't at this point, but think I'll have one on order ASAP. I really feel for his family and friends. What happened Rob? I am so very sorry for your loss. I lost a friend years ago to a hydro drag boat accident, it hurts I know.

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090620/MOTORSPORTS/906209995

SCCA driver dies Saturday after single-car incident at Road America
By GREG MIGLIORE

A picture of Thomas Thrash Jr. is shown during qualifying Friday at Road America.
Thomas Thrash Jr. is shown during qualifying Friday at Road America.
SCCAA veteran SCCA driver died Saturday after a single-car incident at Road America.

Thomas Thrash Jr., 48, of Houston, lost control of his E Production class Mazda RX-7 before turn eight, and the car entered the gravel trap and came to a stop against the tire wall. The incident took place at the SCCA-sanctioned Chicago Region June Sprints event.

The cause of death is under investigation, the SCCA said.

Thrash Jr. was pronounced dead at a hospital in Sheboygan, Wis. He was a 12-year veteran of SCCA competition, won the 2007 SCCA national championship in E Production and was a two-time runoffs pole-sitter. He had qualified on the pole for Saturday's race before the incident.

“We are deeply saddened to have lost Tom Thrash, a great champion and individual that epitomized the spirit and competition of SCCA racing, and most importantly, a member of our SCCA family,” SCCA President and CEO Jeff Dahnert said in a statement. “Our thoughts and prayers are with his family and friends.”

For more Motorsports racing news and reports, click here.



rotaryracer wrote:
As a member of the North Carolina Region of the SCCA, I would like to express our condolences to the Thrash family and those of his friends.

I did not know Tom but did watch him race at the Run Offs at Mid-Ohio several years ago, he was obviously talented. I remember him wrecking in front of a spectator area, he got out of the car, got on top of it and was cheering the crowd on. Definitely not the reaction I had when I wrecked my own race car in 2001!

I have a question, and I do not intend to incite an email war over this: was Tom using a head and neck restraint system? I realize that whether he was or wasn't is immaterial at this point since all the facts are not in.

Our thoughts and prayers are with his family and friends.

6/22/2009 1:46 PM EDT




gmiv wrote:
First let me say that Tom was one of the finest drivers I know. I think we need to keep an open mind until we know the facts. I was at the scene shortly after the accident. I spoke to several witnesses and a track worker. Based on the information I got Tom swerved to the left to miss a car entering the corner. His car went airborn and impacted a tire wall on the passenger side. When he was taken from the car he had head injuries and shallow breathing. Tom was competing in both EP and GT3. I spoke to him Friday about what he did to convert the car, and he told me he bolted on a splitter and rear wing and changed the carb. He had gone out done a slow warm up lap and was on his flyer when he went off. I suspect there may have been a linkage issue. Either way Tom was a great competitor and a good man. He will be missed. My thoughts and prayers are with his family.

Guy Marvin
6/21/2009 10:37 PM EDT


Racer91 wrote:
Brice, the person on the local news was a good friend of Tom's and someone who has known and raced with him for at least 20 years. I knew Tom well, too, and will miss his mirth at the races in the future.

Tom wasn't much different than many of us in SCCA amateur racing: we are largely middle age and in better condition than most of our peers, but only a few of us are in really prime physical condition (Bagby is a notable exception). It is well-known within SCCA that cardiovascular events are as much a risk as collisions. From those who saw Tom right before the incident, we hear that something was wrong.

I have no doubt his car will be carefully examined as we are always seeking to improve safety. Perhaps we can learn something that will make my car safer or that of my friends.

Regardless, nothing will bring our friend Tom Thrash back and we will miss him dearly. He will not be forgotten.
6/21/2009 2:31 PM EDT


Nemba wrote:


I have known Tom Thrash personally for several years and a person I consider to be ideal image and inspiring person with whom most would agree he truly cared for everyone he came in contact with. I am emailing not to cause a problem but to bring to light Tom mentioned to me twice in his racing endeavors, once at TWS and once at Hallett his car was intentionally sabotaged, once in Hallett the front suspension control arm came clean off (Bolts missing) and another with braking failure at TWS. It is a competitive atmosphere and although SCCA has personified a gentlemen’s club for racing I fear that the News exposure with the runoffs has elevated this "news covered" racing to the pentacle of the year, so much that heavy stakes, sponsorship, and.........the unfortunate acts of others not so morally bound may have taken it's toll..........This incident is worthy of true criminal investigation, if for nothing more than to clear the real cause, Tom had been portrayed in our local 11 news as possibly having a medical condition as (speculated) my a person not named in the news video, I though knew Tom to not only be in good shaper but also a person who road cross country motorcycles in his spare time, A person doesn’t do this, race cars, and get to the level is was at without being in tip top shape, not to say it is ruled out I am righting this to plead with those around to insist for Tom's good name that a complete investigation be conducted, certainly would not take the same stance with an airliner, SCCA is a good overall organization, but it is built on older volunteers mostly, volunteers who aren’t as keen as the drivers or cars they drive are, I am simply saying I would challenge SCCA's findings without independent investigations results.

Brice - a concerned person......

6/21/2009 12:28 AM EDT