A real oddball 308 for sale

I got an e-mail from a guy wanting to sell his 308 the other day and I was a little shocked when he sent the pics. He was a little shocked when I told him about his car.

This e-mail was this:

Mr. Jonathan, me and my godfather are deciding to sell our 1977 fiberglass ferrari it has 59,987 miles and is in pristine condition. We did a search and came across your website if
you know of anyone looking for a nice one, here it is.

Thank you Sir.

Rodney

Here's the problem, as you can see. Based on the deck lid and interior, it is a carb car (most likely 1977 based on the VIN) with a QV engine! In further conversations with the owner, he has emphatically insisted it's a fiberglass car when in fact it's not. (The indentation around the rear license plate proves its steel). The VIN is 21079 according to the owner. Of course the QV wheels are a nice bonus, but they are not original.

I have advised the owner that its pricing would need to reflect the fact that it's not in any way an original car (the re-upholstery job is nice but not 100% original looking either) and it's not fiberglass. The bumpers suggest that it's a Euro, but the sidelights indicate that if it is a Euro, it was Federalized. Without the original dry sump carb engine, being a Euro has little value to a buyer except purely on the aesthetics of the bumpers.

I have no affiliation with the owner or the car. In fact, I can't be sure that it's not a scam, although I tend to doubt it...the guy seems pretty up and up. His pictures to me included a clear shot of the license plate (I have blurred it here for his privacy) and he has given me his phone number.

If anyone would like to talk to the guy about the car, PM me and I'll pass along his phone number.

If nothing else, this is an interesting conversation piece for the experts here. It's weird to me to see a QV engine in the carb engine bay with a center stick to hold up the engine lid, the carb coil brackets, etc. Must have been a pain to convert it. He probably lost a valve and it was cheaper to put an engine from a wrecked QV into the car rather than rebuild the carb engine.

Birdman
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What's he looking to get for it? Given your points, I can't see it commanding a huge premium. Then again, someone not in the "know" or didn't care for originality may give consideration.

Just curious...

 

He actually has not named a price. But he insisted this morning to me that it is a rare, 1 of 712 fiberglass 308s. To me that means that nobody that knows anything about 308s (i.e. anyone here) will end up buying it. It's more of a fun discussion.

 

Oh yea, totally agreed. However, if it were priced accordingly, it might warrant consideration.

Interesting that he insisted it was fiberglass - easy to test with magnets!

 

Even easier to look for the A pillar joint.

Jeff

 

Now, only if it had the QV motor with the original Webers. Then we would be talking.

 

That is a strange one. Maybe someone can take it and make a pasta machine out of it....

PDG

 

Maybe I'm dreaming but is that rear bumper upside down?

 

funny,

Just a few months ago I came across a '83 QV with.... a carbed engine.

In this case (too?), talking to the owner reveiled that the owner was not aware that his car was some mix-upped example and he had bought it recently as "just a ferrari 308"

 

Why the hell would you put a QV motor in it?

 

Good catch!
this is mine...
( and I'm sure it's mounted correctly)
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Yea, the VIN would make it a 1977:

Mine:

20405: 1976 production
22127
22641: 1977 production

Mine still have the correct engines....bumper is indeed upside down....

WOW! To this car, is all I can say.............someone could swap the engines back and "save" the car but we are not quite up to valuations that make these deals feasible....

Fixing the bumper will be easier....

 

The hood prop rod isn't original as the stock is too thick....OEM is a delicate lil' thing..

But whoever signs on for THIS car isn't going to notice, I'm sure!!!

TRutland's would be the only answer, to take this QV motor back for a carbed 2V engine......I dunno if they'd play........

 

On the up side, it's a complete car, interior looks VERY nice (you are right, seats are "close" but not correct)........mileage is about average.

It'd be interesting to know the WHOLE story...but I'm sure Bird is right, blew the engine, and fixed it with what they could find, contemporary to 1983 -1985 this would have been viewed as an "update" to the mechanicals....may have paid top dollar for it....

 

Best solution might be for someone to buy it cheap and makes it a "driver" without further modification. To go back to a steel, original car would cost more than the car is worth. (and flip the rear bumper.

 

True. I suggested he test the front fender with a magnet and look for the seam on the A pillar. But as far as I know, the indentation on the rear around the license plate is a dead give away. Has anyone ever seen a glass car with this feature?

 

Exactly what I would do. Judging by the condition in the pics, I'd bet they wouldn't sell this cheap, but it's not worth it to me. Maybe to someone that doesn't know any better, but originality is paramount to me.

 

If it were cheap and originality did not matter it might be a heck of a bargain. If for nothing else than a DD.

Besides as pointed out above, you can ALWAYS swap out engines.



On the other hand if you are looking for an investment (return), DON'T BUY this (ANY) CAR.

 

Well, I am learning as I go. I bought a 308 from web page ad from California and had it shipped to me in Illinois. It runs and drives fine, but I am finding it needs a bit of work, and it is not completely stock. It is a late 1977 308 GTB steel body. VIN 22951. Didn't come with door keys, a spare tire, jack, lug wrench, choke cable or a stock steering wheel and the paint is a quick job with over spray and some small rust bubbles. :-( I am in the process of making it more reliable, and fixing things as I go. As a friend once said "it is a 15 foot car, it looks perfect at 15 feet away"

I finally have some money to toss at it, and with the help of the group here I plan on doing it right. That being said, I would like to find a local guy to look at it, do the work that I cant or don't want to try.

Is there anyone local to the Chicago land area?

Thanks

Eric

 

Eric,

Welcome aboard!

You may want to PM a moderator to have your post moved into its own thread rather than lost and off topic in this one. I expect that once people see your post you will get a lot of support!

Good luck with your project - I followed a similar path to yours but I started with an older car.

Regards,

Art S.

 

There's a Chicago specific section...

I'll join in the welcome!

All the stock steering wheels are gone, so buy the car in this thread for spare parts!!

j/k

 

ya know........ i looked for freaking MONTHS for a yellow GTB, carb, QV, i didnt care. could not find one. and now, there have been several yellow GTB's up for sale.

i love my blu scuro car, but yellow or green would have been a better color for my tastes.

i hope the car finds a good home.

 

Birdman, I'm certainly reticent to doubt your superior knowledge but in fact I was once told by one of the older, very knowledgable FCA members here in Aus that there were a VERY FEW of the earliest glass cars that did have the indentation...

 

One or two people have said this, but nobody has ever offered proof. And if they were very early...this one isn't based on the VIN. I sent him pictures of the dead-giveaway "seam" at the top of the A pillar and he came back and said there is no seam and finally admitted that he must be wrong...the car is not glass.

 

I spoke to the son-in-law of the owner yesterday and forwarded him info on the car. This GTB may or may not be fiberglass since its vin# fits squarely between two glass cars BUT it is near the end of the glass cars run. It has the wrong engine, the wrong interior and the wrong paint. The owners admit to knowing little about Ferraris even though they've owned it for "five or six years," but since I believe they want big bucks for the car they're not willing to advertise it on Fchat--probably fearing that it would be picked apart. Instead, Birdman and I were informed by email last night that it would be run trough a local car auction in Memphis.