Tire Pressure Warning Light

Hi Guys,

I have the FHP 19" wheels and tires on my car. After about a minute of starting the car, the tire pressure warning light comes on and won't go off. I have checked the pressure and looked OK. Talked to the workshop and they actually recommended me to "kill" that feature permanently. Do any of you guys experienced this before? If yes, how did you solve/bypass it? Thx in advance.

Hendra

 

Handra- The first thing you need to do is ensure all tire pressures are set correctly and that the TPMS ECU is set to the type of tires on your car with an SD2. Pirellis use an inflation pressures of 32 psi and Michelins use 29 psi. If the TPMS ECU is set to the wrong one, you are already 3 psi off on your tire pressures and this may cause a soft warning light. After you are sure the ECU is correctly set and the tire pressures are correct, perform a tire calibration using the pushbutton on the lower left hand side of the instrument panel/dashboard. Turn the ignition to on, but do not start the engine. Depress the pushbutton for five seconds and a CAL light will come on. Drive the car for 20 minutes or so and the TPMS will calibrate itself. If this does not fix the problem, one of your options is to have a technician disable the system using an SD2. If this is done, the TPMS warning lamp will come on briefly after start and then go out. If you want to actually fix the system, read the bit below I excerpted from an extensive thread in the technical forum.

Here is what I have learned about early Ferrari TPMS systems for 575M/SA and early f430 cars. First, US/Canadian TPMS sensors are 315 Mhz to avoid interfering with the 433 Mhz alarm remotes on US/Canadian cars. I made the $400 mistake of ordering orange 433 Mhz RDE 001 sensors, which are for European cars. You actually need RDE 004 sensors, which are dark gray or dark brown and 315 Mhz.

Summary:

315 Mhz (Euro), Gen 1 RDE 001 Light Gray, Gen 1.5 RDE 001 Orange
433 Mhz (US/Cdn), Gen 1 RDE 004 Dark Gray, Gen 1.5 RDE 004 Dark Brown

Ferraris use 43 mm valve stems, the same size as most Mercedes cars.

TPMS sensors can be set up one of two ways, 1) a technician can set them up using an SD-2/3, which does not require the car to be driven or 2) the tire pressure calibration button (or similar name) can be depressed in the "on" ignition position for five seconds before starting and the system will calibrate itself after a 20 minute or so drive. You will see a CAL or similar indication after depressing the button for five seconds.

If you are receiving a TPMS warning light and want to see if it is just TPMS sensors, try adding an additional 5 psi of tire pressure and do a calibration and see if the lights go out. If they do, all you need is TPMS sensors. If they do not, drive the car for 10-20 minutes to warm the tires and raise tire pressures further, stop and turn off the ignition and use your calibration switch one more time and see if the system will calibrate. If the lights go out with the higher tire pressures from heating, all you need are new TPMS sensors. You will lose this calibration once the car cools down, of course. The higher tire pressures make it easier for the TPMS sensors to read and transmit a pressure. If neither attempt results in a calibration, see your technician for further analysis.

If you have a European 575M/SA or early 430 and want to pick up a really low price set of RDE 001 Gen 1.5 orange sensors, PM me. Maybe I can turn a $400 mistake into a $200 mistake and you will have a set of sensors with at least 8 years left on them. That is about the cost of one sensor from Ferrari.

These sensors, which are inside the tires (obviously) attached to the tire valve, are expensive from Ferrari, but less from vendors like DubZDirect, who advertise on E-Bay.

Taz
Terry phillips

 

You can either replace the batteries or have it turned off at your next service by the sd-2.

My advice?......... turn it off and take that money you saved to the bar and have quite a few nice cocktails whilst chatting up the ladies.


OPPS taz, apparently I was typing while you were posting

 

FOU- No sweat. I need my TPMS here in the hinterlands, where it is long way between towns. We are the fifth largest state in land area, but have only about 2M inhabitants, most clustered around Albuquerque, so lots of empty space out there where a flat tire and no spare equals no fun.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Terry, what is the value of tire pressure sensors in the event of a puncture in the middle of nowhere? Advance warning of a long day ahead? Seriously, we are so screwed when we get a flat or even worse, a blow out. I cannot imagine that any retailer stocks my tires and how many even have a machine large enough to change my tire without destroying my rim? I could only hope that a replacement tire might be in a warehouse within 100 miles.

 

David- Most flats I have had are gradual nail or screw deflations with tire pressure slowly dropping enough to set off a TPMS warning. Has happened to me several times in Corvettes and Jeeps. I have a 12 volt tire pump, without the Ferrari shot of sealant that trashes the TPMS sensor, and can just refill the tire, several times if necessary, until I can reach a tire shop and have the flat repaired.

I have had lots of flats, but never a blow-out. The wheels on our cars are not even large by contemporary standards. My wife's Mercedes has 21" x 10" wheels and one of my neighbor's Cadillac SUVs has 22" wheels. C6 Z06 tires dwarf ours as do the 19"x12" wide rear wheels. Pirelli allows only one tire repair per tire, but if you drive a Ferrari hard, it is probably a good idea to get another tire after repairing any flat. If the other tire is worn, you may need to get two.

I cannot wait until Michelin brings out their PS2 Zero Pressures in suitable sizes for Ferraris. They corner better than our Pirellis (1.1 "g" in the ZR1) and will last 2-3 times as long. One less thing about which to worry.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

I have the 19x12.5's in back. Only tire available for now is the P-Zero and since so few cars run with them, they are not readily available everywhere...as far as I know and hope I never need to find out. As I understand it, it's the width that confounds tire dealers' equipment. Truck tire equipment is too rough for our delicate allow wheels, or so I have been told. Anyone know the truth?

 

Dave- I forgot about your NF2s. Tire Rack carries the 355/25 19 Pirellis you need and can get them to you overnight if necessary. Getting them changed could be a problem in smaller towns. I have seen it done at some shops using hand tools and rags to prevent scratches. If there is a hole from a nail or screw, the tire can be plugged as an emergency measure until you get to your regular shop.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Hi Taz,

Once again, thanks for the info. You really sound like a walking owner's manual. I will try to print this and show to the mechanic. Hopefully he can help. Maybe I should change my tires too. Although it has only 2K+ kms, it has been on the car since '04. So maybe I need to change them. Last week I drove the car on the highway for the first time and did 200+km/h. It was very, very fast. The highways in my country are very bumpy and so the car felt like it was going faster than it actually was doing. It really is a nice car. I can imagine using this car as a daily driver if I were living in the US.

Regards,

Hendra

 

A tire that has been plugged and patched from the inside is actually very safe, I would not worry about replacing it due to that. I have a couple of race cars and I have even run a race tire (Hoosier) that had been patched on the track, with the blessing of the race shop that inspected the repair. Just make sure that the repair was not just a plug, but a patch was also applied to the underside of the tire.

If the tires have been on the car since 2004, I would consider that a greater concern, but not an emergency. You might look for the date code on the sidewall to check the date of manufacture. I've always considered 6 years to be the max.

 

Thanks Jakermc,

Will check the manufacturing date of the tires when I get back to my country. Any suggestions as to what brand or model I should try in the event I have to change it? Or stick to the same type? The roads in my country are not very smooth and we only have hot and rainy season.

Regards,

Hendra

 

I am going to try these Bridgestone's next: http://tinyurl.com/lxgwv2

I've had good experiences with the previous model on the Porsche and they are cheaper than Pirellis. I also like the higher wear rating of 180. Not an Italian tire, but hey, they do supply the tires for Formula 1. Only issue you might have with them is that the sidewall is relatively stiff and may make for a rough ride based on your desription of the local roads. (note the last paragraph I wrote here)

BTW, my opinion on street tires is a little different than most. The limits of today's high performance tires will never be reached on the streets unless you are behaving in a fashion that will send you to jail. Whenever I hear about people comparing one max performance tire to another in terms of performance on the street, I usually assume they don't understand where the limit is. I was there myself at one point, but after 6 years of significant track time and 3 years competing wheel to wheel, I've come to realize that it's impossible to safely reach the limit of today's tires on the street. Nearly all high max and extreme performance tires are that good, at least in terms of dry grip.

IMO wet grip, longevity, and road noise seem to differentiate the good from the bad. There is also a difference in driving feel, which is mostly related to sidewall stiffness with edge profile being a secondary factor, but I would argue that most drivers can't really tell the difference in terms of handling.

Sidewall stiffness though is something most will notice in terms of ride comfort. Think of the sidewall as being part of your suspension system and a stiffer sidewall is similar to increasing your spring rates. Stiffer sidewall will equate to a rougher ride when going over bumps, but will make the car more responsive in transitions. You've got to decide which trade-off is right for you.

 

Hendra- Another alternate tire for the 575 is the Michelin PS2, which has a wear rating of 220 compared to the 160 or so of the Pirellis. Readily available from most dealers. Here are the fronts. The rears are further down the list.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp?&make=Michelin&model=Pilot+Sport+PS2&partnum=535YR9SPTPS2XLV2&tirePageLocQty=%26partnum%3D535YR9SPTPS2XLV2

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

How do tires wear on the 575? On my 355 I wore out the rears much faster than the front, 3 pairs in the rear for every 1 in the front. If the same is true here, or even 2x, watch out for the Michelins. The price on the rear set is very expensive.

 

Very normal stuff for high speed tires on rear wheel drive cars. Matters little whether Ferrari, Porsche, MB or other high performance auto. I'd consider myself fortunate to wear at 3 to one.
Rears on a 575 go at about 7,500 and the fronts shortly thereafter. No abuse involved. Just normal wear. I'd get used to it. I've seen worse. A rear set is about 1K/pr. Front 60% that.
Get used to it.

 

Having only owned mid-engine and rear engined, rear wheel drive sports cars in the past I did not know how big a difference the relative wear rates might be front to rear versus a front engined car. If the fronts wear out soon after the rears on the 575, as you describe, sounds like there is a difference so it does matter.

Only the Michelins cost about $1K/set, the other options are less expensive. I asked the question to understand just how big a price premium the Michelins are relative to the Bridgestones. For a single set, the premium is more than 40%. It gets worse from there if the rears are replaced more often than the fronts. The wear rating for the Michelin is only 22% better, so there better be other reasons to chose this tire over the other options. (Yes, I know the tire ratings are not uniform across manufacturers, but its the only info we have to go on)

 

I keep hoping Michelin will make PS2 ZPs for the 575M, but no luck. These are fitted to the ZR1 and offer much better grip and much longer life. We shall see.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

+1

I've heard many good things about this tire

 

The drive wheels (rear) are going to wear faster than the steer wheels (front). That is a fact.
Trying to save money is rarely a good option over performance in these cars. But, it is your call.

 

Ken, Rob- Our driving styles must be different, because I always wear out the front tires first. Usually the outside front edges on the fronts are gone way before the rears. Makes no difference what car I drive. Corvettes, Porsches, Ferraris, the fronts always go first.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Actually, the question was not to determine if the rears wear out fast or not, I was wondering if the rate was 3 to 1? Or 2 to 1? Or just a little, as your experience shows. Or as Terry shows, a different experience.

It is NOT a fact that drive wheels wear out faster, but a common misconception. Much more comes into play than that. Weight distribution for one. Alignment settings is another. General handling characteristics is a third (i.e. has the car been engineered to understeer).

When I first began racing I wore out my front right tire first on CCW circuits. After set-up changes and changes to my style, I now wear out my rears at a rate of 2 to 1 in my primary race car, a Porsche 911. In my Porsche Spec Boxster race car, ALL OF US in the series were wearing out our FRONT tires at a rate of 2 to 1 initially, until the spec changed and allowed us to put a wider front tire on. That car inherently understeers, so when pushed to its limits the front tires scrub hard and wear out. Running a square tire set-up (same size on all corners) cured the problem. I could go on with many more examples from years of tire testing but I think you get the point.

Just because a tire is priced higher does not mean it 'performs' better. Don't believe the marketing hype, you can save money AND get better performance. And again I will reiterate my position that virtually any performance tire these days has handling limits that far exceed sane driving on public streets. If you intend to track your street car and you have the talent, I can understand spending more on a street tire to get the ultimate level of handling performance. But any car that does double duty is a compromise and I prefer dedicated weapons. A solid street tire from the many available choices for my street cars and dedicated racing tires (Hoosier R6) for my race cars.

BTW, what exactly is 'performance' in a street tire? I consider it a balance between many factors such as dry handling, wet handling, noise, wear rates, etc. I can't tell if you are supporting the theory of buying the best handling tire for your performance car or a balance of something else. But I can say that the expensive tire you supported has the highest wear rating, so if you want ultimate grip I would guess this is a bad choice. More likely than not it has a harder compound than a 160 or 180 rated tire, which compromises dry grip (relatively speaking).

 

If you are wearing out the outside fronts ahead of everything else, this can be cured by increasing negative camber. This often happens when street cars are tracked. The low camber settings of a normal street alignment causes the contact patch to be very small in high g-force turns, with the outside edges of the front tires taking the majority of the load in the turn. Increasing negative camber will allow a wider foot print to stay in contact with the pavement and even the load across the surface of the tire. Sounds like you are pushing hard through the turns, good! You just need to set up the car for it.

The downside to the camber change is that braking efficiency will not be as good. In a straight line the contact patch is smaller when you have lots of negative camber, so less tire to help with braking. There are trade-offs in every set-up, but if you have a history of this I would recommend the change.

 

Rob- I do not track my cars, but am very aggressive on turn-in and cornering on the street. As you said, with normal street alignment, this will wear the outside front edge of both front tires. This has been happening to me for 40 years or so and is just the price of driving hard.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Thanks for clarifying. Of course, one tailors the tire to the drive. I do exclusively high speed dry driving in goodweather and care little about wet grip or other conditions. I suppose one cannot fit one tire type to every condition.

 

Thank you thank you everyone. I will check the tires out at my local tire store. Btw, what Psi should I be running on the Bridgestones. Thanks to Taz, I just found out that different tires use different pressures even though they are the same size.