F1 gearbox failure or am I missing something obvious? | FerrariChat

F1 gearbox failure or am I missing something obvious?

Discussion in '360/430' started by pahig, Jun 26, 2009.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. pahig

    pahig Karting

    Jan 2, 2009
    57
    st. louis, mo
    Full Name:
    paul
    Got into my new (for me) '06 430, turned to position 2, and lo and behold, though CHECK OK flashed, the car wouldn't start, and I noticed a "dead feel" in the brake. It was then I noticed the car was in first gear. "Hmmm" me thinks, did I accidentally hit the upshift lever in my starting process? No problem, I thought, I'll just take the key out and start over. A few minutes with the owners manual later, I'd learned about shifting gears while the cars parked, etc. I read the part about getting the car into neutral by pulling back both the upshift and downshift levers at the same time, but alas, after doing that for ten seconds, the red "F1 gearbox failure" light went on and buzzed at me. I tried it once or twice more (parking brake on, parking brake off), but still nothing (though no other warning lights are on)....Am I missing something obvious, or did my car at rest suddenly experience gearbox failure at 2500 miles? Apologies if I've missed this thread elsewhere, thanks for any insight, it's finally gotten below 90 degrees here and I was SO looking forward to drive the car I've only had a few weeks and driven a couple hundred miles.
     
  2. pahig

    pahig Karting

    Jan 2, 2009
    57
    st. louis, mo
    Full Name:
    paul
    I ~did~ hear a click-click (akin to popping your tongue) noise when I turned the key to -0- position, which tells me the shifter was trying to do something.
     
  3. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
    7,645
    Northern California
    Full Name:
    Greg Calo
    #3 GCalo, Jun 26, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2009
    Not a gearbox failure.

    The experts should chime in but I believe you have to stand pretty firm on the brake pedal while trying this.
     
  4. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    106,246
    Vegas baby
    #4 TheMayor, Jun 26, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2009
    When you say "did not start", what do you mean? Did the engine turn over and wouldn't catch fire or it just do nothing to turn the engine? You may have a dead battery. Do you know the condition or when it was changed or charged last?
     
  5. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,121
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Unless something is wrong that needs fixing (Broken brake light switch) pushing harder on the brake pedal does nothing.
     
  6. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,121
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Holding either paddle for too long will set an error.

    Try it again being sure the immobiliser is inactive and the brake is pushed down. If the car will not start get it taken in and have it fixed. Something is wrong and if you do manage to get it going it is going to strand you somewhere.
     
  7. pahig

    pahig Karting

    Jan 2, 2009
    57
    st. louis, mo
    Full Name:
    paul
    i tend to not think it's the battery, as every other indicator is fine...shortly after the car arrived, the "check engine" (yellow symbol) came on, and i took it into the dealership, expecting to have them replace the battery (hey, this is mid-'09, it's an '06)...but they charged the battery overnight, said it still had plenty of juice but must've sat too long at the dealership, it was transported, etc...it started a week ago just fine...but the inability to get it out of 1st gear into N is an oddity...i've owned the car a month, and now i guess this will be its second trip to the local service dealership, which is never a convenient thing...sigh...i got used to this with the mondial-t, but was hoping to avoid this type of hassle with an effectively new 430...please God, don't make me wind up with a mercedes SL ;-D
     
  8. pahig

    pahig Karting

    Jan 2, 2009
    57
    st. louis, mo
    Full Name:
    paul
    the red button got nothing, but i don't think it's the battery...is the "immobiliser" the emergency brake? i've tried starting the car from an emergency brake engaged/brake NOT engaged status, and still the foot brake feels "dead" as if the entire car does not want to respond...yet, the dashboard indicates a healthy car, and the "check" light says OK...i even tried switching from sport to race and the car 'recognized' that switch...problem was when i press "start" it doesn't do anything, as if to say "Hey moron, you can't start this car in first gear, you need to be in neutral or you'll fly into the front of your garage!"
     
  9. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    May 21, 2006
    7,930
    West Coast
    Full Name:
    Ray
    #9 RayJohns, Jun 26, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Get yourself a nice dry cell racing battery to start with :) I can't comment much on the F1, but you are in good hands with Brian.

    These F1 threads always remind me of that scene in I, Robot where Will Smith says "I don't want my toaster getting 'emotional'" :)

    Ray
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  10. jjsaustin

    jjsaustin Formula Junior

    May 11, 2008
    579
    Austin, TX
    Full Name:
    Jim
  11. pahig

    pahig Karting

    Jan 2, 2009
    57
    st. louis, mo
    Full Name:
    paul
    no, the car's in first gear-- that's the problem, i am trying to get it into neutral so that the car will start....today i am going to cut the master switch and hope that this is a case of a frozen up personal computer that defies all logic till you unplug the darn thing and then plug it back in....
     
  12. pahig

    pahig Karting

    Jan 2, 2009
    57
    st. louis, mo
    Full Name:
    paul
    OK...I did the battery disengage trick, waited a few minutes, re-engaged battery, entered in security/radio code, put in key, turned to position II, waited 10+++ seconds, and....it didn't change a darn thing...Now, I'm on to the last chance, which is putting on the battery tender...The "good" sign is that the little "meter reader" light on the tender shows the signal for a less than fully charged battery...Once it gets up to full charge, I'll try the process again...I hope that does the trick, though if it does, so help me, I will call the Ferrari service tech and ask him why he didn't change out the battery for a new one the first time like I asked him-- a car sitting only 5 days should NOT be long enough to take a battery out for the count...But, we shall see...an undercharged battery fixed with a tender is a helluva lot better notion than having this thing towed out of my garage with an incline driveway. =:-0
     
  13. pahig

    pahig Karting

    Jan 2, 2009
    57
    st. louis, mo
    Full Name:
    paul
    After removing the other suspects, the problem was addressed-- apparently the brakes didn't have enough "oomph" or whatever in them, so I was advised to not only put my foot on the brake, but put it on HARD....then when pressing the start button, the ABS issue or whatever was recognized, the car went into Neutral, and voila'! she started up!

    Thanks for the tips from everyone, one more mystery solved!



     
  14. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
    7,645
    Northern California
    Full Name:
    Greg Calo
    Please refer to post #3.

    Good going!
     
  15. pahig

    pahig Karting

    Jan 2, 2009
    57
    st. louis, mo
    Full Name:
    paul
    I had pressed my foot on the brake (amongst other things like tugging my earlobe and whistling a happy tune) but it had not taken the first time...It was only after a ~hard~ pump that the car recognized it. I am beginning to wonder if something else might be at work, because when I got the car out last night for a drive, the 'failure to go to neutral' situation presented itself again just after stopping to get gas. Heretofore, the car has just registered neutral when the key went to position II. Anyway, I suppose I'll get the car in sooner or later, as for some reason the stereo just cut-out at one point, so I'll have that looked at soon enough (though it was fine this morning).
     
  16. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,121
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    #16 Rifledriver, Jun 30, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2009
    You have a defective brake vacuum check valve or a leak of some nature in the vacuum line. It should be fixed or replaced before you have a brake problem. That is much more serious than a starting problem, it could cause a loss of brakes. Like I said earlier unless something is broken pushing harder on the pedal has no effect. Well something is indeed broken.

    Numb nuts at the dealership should know that.
     
  17. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    May 21, 2006
    7,930
    West Coast
    Full Name:
    Ray
    +1

    stopping the car is always more important than getting it to move - unless you are stuck on RR tracks.. then going is important as well. Take it from someone who has had a total brake failure on a car, stopping is very important :) When I was young and foolish, I modified my front struts on my car. In the process, I cut off the little tab where the brake line mounted. I figured "why is that even needed". Okay, turns out that keeps the brake line from rubbing on the side of the metal parts down around the suspension when you turn the steering wheel (who knew??). The result was that after about 1000 miles of driving around, the contact between the rubber brake line and the metal of the body/suspension resulted in rubbing right through the brake line on the left side. One day when I was driving, I pushed down the brakes to stop and just heard a "pop" noise and the pedal went completely down to the floor. That's a moment you don't forget - you are sailing along at 40 miles per hour and suddenly the brakes are gone. Luckily there was no traffic around and I was able to down shift and use the hand brake to slow the car down (luckily the hand brake even worked, because this was a 1971 Datsun 510) :) Anyway, the point is, don't take chances with the brakes on your car - if something is wrong - especially when your car is capable of doing nearly 200 miles per hour.

    Like Brian points out, there is probably something else wrong some place. Having to push "extra hard" is (at best) compensating a little bit for some other defect some place in the system. The car should recognize that the brakes are being pushed just fine when normal pressure is applied to them. There shouldn't be a need to push the pedal through the floor with 500 ft lbs of force in order to get the car into neutral when everything is functioning correctly.

    So, word to the wise, locate the problem and address it.

    Ray
     
  18. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,121
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall


    Oh no point in doing that Ray when we can just continue to come up with work arounds and ignore the genesis of the problem until we crash it or it leaves us stranded. Then we'll just blame it on Ferrari.
     
  19. pahig

    pahig Karting

    Jan 2, 2009
    57
    st. louis, mo
    Full Name:
    paul
    appreciate the thoughts, i will schedule a visit...i need to get the directional thingy-dingy adjusted anyway, it is sometimes failing to go off when a something less than a 360-turn is completed...
     
  20. Quadcammer

    Quadcammer Formula Junior

    Jun 29, 2005
    500
    Clifton, NJ
    Full Name:
    Oliver
    wow, seems like you're having a lot of issues for a 2,500 mile car.

    good luck getting it resolved.
     

Share This Page