Differences between 77' and 78' US 308's

Hello,

You are correct in that the '78 and '79 models are rated at 205 hp while the '77s are rated at 240. The main differences are that the '78 and newer models have catalysts and different camshaft profiles, but I'm sure there are other things (maybe carb jetting, other emissions devices, etc.?). I think the misinformation (i.e. regular claims of all carbureted 308s being 240, 250, or 255hp are part wishful thinking and part failure to read/comprehend correct information . . . and part eBay jockeys saying anything it takes to sell a car).

Regarding catalysts on U.S. cars, 1975 was the first year for their being required, but there were exceptions made. 308s are one, a few Lotus Esprits were exempted for whatever reason, and I believe Mazda RX-7s were exempted through 1980 (although I may be mistaken), to name a few.

Regarding the use of the apostrophe, most people on FerrariChat are unfortunately clueless, and it makes reading this forum a chore for people who know punctuation. For all of your future writing, it will help you to know that: 1) When you put the apostrophe on an abbreviated year, it goes before the number (i.e. '78), because the part before the number is what is taken out; and 2) Unbeknownst to 99% of FerrariChatters, you DO NOT USE AN APOSTROPHE TO PLURALIZE ANYTHING -- that includes numbers, abbreviations, capital letters, etc. So, for example, the plural of 308 is 308s. The plural of GTB is GTBs. The plural of Ferrari is Ferraris. Apostrophes are used to do things like show possession and contractions. Anyone who is interested in bettering himself will take note of this and improve.

 

Adding to the confusion, Ferrari's reported horsepower ratings in the '70s are suspect, and may be optimistic. In fact I think there's a recent thread here from 'APoleApart' with some contemporary articles, one of which mentions that the output ratings in the author's 308 were likely influenced by the marketing department.

I would still prefer a non-cat 308, but you should take all these hp numbers with a grain of salt.

 

Many thanks' for posting this.

 

That's a true story. Some testers at the time commented that the cars with cats were easier to launch because the ignitions were not messed with as much as on the non cat cars. Of course, those mods were easily reversed. 77s do have air pumps just like cat cars.

BTW, not sure if cats were ever technically required equipment but as standards became more strict, they could not be met without them. I had a '78 280Z that I bought new that did not have them. I don't know what year in the US a non cat car was sold but it had to be about that time. 77 308s had a device called a thermal reactor that did heat up the exhaust gases some.

In the final analysis, I would not pay much attention to published power figures. The 2 valve injected cars are seat of the pants slower. Carb cars and QV's have different power bands and so are hard to compare. If it were me, I'd go for 76-77 but I'm a GTB guy. Anyone wanting a spider is stuck with a 78-79.

Dave

 

There is a 12" difference between the 77' and 78' models.

 

Many owners of US '78-'79 carb cars here on fchat have managed to yield excellent bhp at the rear wheels by setting up jetting for performance and tweaking the timing a bit with a stock engine. The '76-'77 cams are superior to tuning in general. In stock form early cams are maybe 10bhp-15 (flywheel) bhp better than that of the early cams. The difference is when you want to put more compression in the engine or dial the cams in a bit differently for more overlap etc. The later cams just do not respond as well as the early cams because lift/dur is so much less than that of the early cams. Early intake cams have .352 lift and later have .305 which is of course a huge difference. From what I have seen on here, some people with later cams are getting around 180-182rwbhp (215-220ish at the flywheel) with a healthy tuned engine while those with healthy early engines are getting around 190rwbhp (225-230ish at the flywheel). With more cam tuning bringing the power band up around 7k from 6.6k I would not be surprised if an early cam stock engine yielded even more.

If you can find a nice early car, go for it. They are great. The '76-'77 GTBs are the epitome of what a mid-engined Ferrari should be (slightly biased )

 

A quick visual difference: 308s after '77 had additional vents (louvers, 5?) on the engine cover that extends beyond the ones on the '75-'77 and connects the whole "vent grid".

Don't the '78-79 cars have sodium filled exhaust valves or are they on the '80-'82 injected cars?

 

78s were slower because:
milder camshaft, (lift, duration & timing)
diferent ignition timing.
cats, (inplace of the 100 pound "thermal reactor"), both 77 & up had air pumps.
Definitely leaner carb jetting.

The cams are the killer, because of the expense to update.

The Euros had the same ,(77) cams but were timed differently. Probably had a bit different ignition timing and jets as well. Obviously no cats/pumps and a bit less weight & were drysumped.

hth,
chris

 

Just go by the labling on the car itself........a NON CAT car will be DOT labeled as such, both in the door jamb (sticker) and in the engine ID plate (metal) on the LH frame of the engine compartment...

If that is NON CAT you have the early engine specification (later parts swapping not withstanding)..

I'm lost on the 'apostrophe' comment as it is properly used to denote 'posssesive', not intended to 'pluralize' anything......

So, all of my NON CAT GTB's cam shafts are indeed high performance profiles........and I have LOT of GTBs.......LOLOL!

 

There's a WEBER chart showing the Factory jetting on our cars by year, I have seen it, that would answer your question exactly but as many point out no doubt the jetting changed as the cam profiles were revised...

Correct also, the comment on NON CAT cars and air injection pumps.....1976 and 1977 cars had air pumps, and the mentioned "Thermoreactor" muffler, at least until the ANSA sport exhaust was fitted, usually before leaving the dealer!

IIRC sodium valves have been in our engines since the very beginning, back to 1975 and I suppose the GT4s????

 

You're correct. I'm having brain fades due to the overwhelming celebration of our countrys birth

 

I have heard that the plural of Ferrari is Ferrari, as in; There were many Ferrari at the event.....

 

Not a single apostrophe used by the thread starter is indicating a possessive. And in your sentence above, assuming "all of" means more than one GTB, then the possessive should be GTBs', as plural possessive is normally "s" followed by apostrophe. ""

 

+10 Of course you're biased. That's the way it should be!

Ciao,
George

 

If the word is plural as in 3 pilots, and you want to show possession then you have 3 pilots' Ferraris. LOL

Ciao,
George

 

What is the synonym for anal?...

 

For many people, doing something correctly -- or even precisely -- is just a matter of course. It takes little effort to write intelligently. It's a good habit.

 

Somebody please make this a sticky.

 

All the Euro carb cars had the same cams/specs and no cats. There is no HP difference between a 77 and a 78 Euro in HP.

Of course one of the biggest and most obvious differences is that most all '78s are GTSs whereas all '77s are GTBs.

Tony, did I pass? (Are you and English teacher??) Now would the plural of GTS be "GTSs" as I wrote above, or would it be "GTSes"?

Birdman

 

Euro specification was NON CAT thru 1980, if I have it right....

So those carbed cars will be single distributor, dry sump, and have lightweight fibreglass bumpers that snap in two, just before your ankles do......no door crash beams either.

So those are the items that generate the fabled "weight savings', around 300# or so.

Good hunting.....
Alan

 

I have three.........want one???

 

Artvonne has two....(what happened with him, Bird?)

Dave Helms has two also.......

Did you call Lady Vxxxxxxx about our valences? She's been gone from her home for some time, something is up......talk to Don or Tanya if she won't answer the phone.