SE 30 thread

Vic: my SE30 was the same in build as all the USA cars that I have carefully inspected since, some half-a-dozen (6) of them, including cars that are being discussed here!

My observations are both objective & valid, and I daresay Ive had enough personal experience with both the Lamborghini and the Ferrari marque to assess good fit & finish, so, please respectfully accept my own personal viewpoint for what it is. Yours can be different, and I accept yours for how you see it. I also can fully understand how someone dedicated to the model will say: "Oh, it must have been a BAD car". It wasn't, it was the same as the rest of them Ive inspected, delivered brand new to me with Valentino's test miles on the clock. I was at Sant Agata when they were building these in October of 1994 and I can tell you that it was a pretty standardized operation. Even the Countachs were pretty similar in finish. You'd have to go back to the days of the Miura to see glaring differences between the cars. If you go back and actually read my plusses & minuses post, you'd agree Ive remained objective. Also note the revs 'hunting' issue and the 'creaking' interiors have been noted by others within this thread! Obviously, I'm a lot more impartial than some care to be, but thats OK, I completely understand & accept where you stand. That's what makes ownership of the cars interesting, everyone sees them differently.

I must confess they did pay a lot more attention to the interior of the European/rest-of-the-world cars. Here is the Alcantara-lined interior of the last one made. Not my taste at all, but, it is what it is...
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I can accept your assesmentas your opinion.....but you are only answering HALF the question...?

So you think a USA version of a SE30 holds the same value as other USA version SE30, or any SE 30 for that matter that has had the interior switched from OEM factory installed to NON OEM factory alcantera type interior...regardless if the work is of good quailty or not...that is not in question...it is the replacement of OEM parts with NON OEM parts..?

And for a SE30 to have been sent back to the factory that did use OEM parts to complete the door transfer..I agree that is better than using NON OEM parts...and for the owner it was more to his suiting....I can appreciate that...just as I have made changes on cars I own with other OEM parts to change to personality of the car or its operation more to my liking...but I maintain all the ORGINAL OEM parts for the day I wish to part with it as I think it holds more value to most buyers being presented in its, as you quite often state "as born from the factory".

Now is that a more correct and fair statement..?

 

I agree the crafstman and workmanship was good. But the point I am making is that it is NOT OEM product (and Yes, I know this for a fact as well as who the installers where)...and the steering wheel of this car as well was never presented in that manner on ANY SE30...IMO it does drop the value of one of these very special cars, which only 25 ever crossed the sea to us.

 

I disagree...just cause they were all made at the same time at that factory under your watchful eye does not mean they were all produced with the same attention and came out the same way..just the fact of them being hand built lends to the validity of them ALL being different..My red SE30 IS BETTER THAN MY pURPLE se30 #8..NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT..and they both drive differently

 

I think it's just a different perspective of looking at Lamborghinis in general. Some might judge the SE mainly on its performance, others on 'practicality', others on the design of the car, etc. Or most likely a combination. Whatever you find most important in a supercar. For me, the Diablo SE is the ultimate Diablo because I like the philosophy behind this car: light weight, rwd, limited edition outrageous looking supercar. Basically a race car for the road (don't forget Lamborghini initially developed this car for racing). And in this philosophy, I think they should have been consequent and also got rid of the radio and a/c. Which was originally planned as you can see these are missing on the prototypes. But then again, if you think practicality (if you can speak of any in Lambos ) is to a cerain extent important, I do understand you would like to see normal windows and a/c in the SE. And this is probably also what Lamborghini realized in the 90s when they decided to don't go racing and to offer the car to its customers.

 

Roy Im not sure how to value the USA car that has gone to an Alcantara interior. I'm sure it looks nice, but Id be more comfortable if the factory was the one to modify the car away from the USA spec being that it was the entire interior. Also, I forgot to mention, I have noted in all the SE30s I have seen, moderate to severe de-lamination of the windows (not a particularly good thing). Now I think of it whilst we are on the subject, the pedals of all the SE30s I have inspected have mild surface corrosion for some reason. I just think the interior of the USA cars leaves a lot to be desired.

Yes I agree, if you make a privateer modification, keeping the original bits is the way to go, and therefore takes nothing away from the car's status.

 

Actually you would be surprised by the differences between the SE if you take a closer look, they might not be as visible as on the early Lamborghini like the Miura though. Gear shifter, emblems, door trim, center console, roll cage, etc. Really there are a lot of differences that make some of the cars unique, it's just that the 25 US cars look identical.

 

Roy, as you know, I am hired by people who expect me to be objective, dispassionate, and accurate in my assessment of Lamborghinis & Ferraris. Accordingly, when I speak of a particular model, I like to share the full picture, not just the attributes. Rest assured, this way of operating has both saved and made a lot. I view these cars with my heart as an enthusiast, but I allow my head to speak as a businessman.

I am sure you will agree with me, if only by judging by my own cars, that I have a keen eye for both standard and detail!

Just take my comments on USA SE30s as honest observations of my own and another half-dozen cars (enough for me to form an educated opinion), and please accept them as coming from a professional who has nothing to lose or gain one way or another in making them.

Best,

 

Yes, Im speaking about the USA cars...

 

I think there are sounds from all of the cars regardless of which series. I've been in svs, 6.0s. All of them seem to eminate some sound.... That seems to be the case unless all those cars were bad.... But I firmly believe that they are all perfect and Merely exhibiting some "individuality"

On another note, I did the little writeup with the intent of showing some differnces. Of course, perhaps there might be some errors on the engine info. However, that seems to be not the point. My point was to highlight the experience. Hopefully people who enjoyed the read

 

I can chime in with some "defects" that I discovered on mine - two of which were indeed described by Joe:

1. Delaminating of the glass tint on the tiny side windows (I do have a spare set though - maybe off the yellow car since I found them in the USA).

2. Creaking around the center console area, especially at low speeds. My mechanic said that he could eliminate it.

3. The plastic around the button of the external door latch has a small crack (both right and left). Looking at other Diablos I noticed that this is a reoccurring problem.

4. One must be extremely careful in not scraping the underside of the front spoiler – so far I have been able to avoid any damage (and also the previous owner)..

Other than that I have no issues what-so-ever.

I agree with Roy in keeping the internal CF with the original dull finish and not the shiny 6.0 finish.

The drive and feel offers exceptional communication between car and driver.

My 2 cents.

Alex

I find the level of finish much higher than that of the Countach. Better engineered vehicle, and MUCH more user freindly - OK there is the ground clearance issue that the Downndraft does not have -

 

diablos almost all have this issue, we will order some toegether for the future

it is just a matter of time...

agree on all points, the euro car finish is ok to me, i love the alcantara-CF interior idea, the ground clearance is really annoyng for me... too low cars = too few miles ( but low car looks superb)

if given the opportunity to get one new (i could not since i was 16 years old when they were new..), i personally would have ordered the car without the stereo, with the fire ext. and with A\C

 

a white car

that ended up where?? in middle east?

i personally like the interior of this car... given it was not purple 30th they thought to have a purple 30th alcantara interior ( interesting idea...)

i would not call it for all tastes

 

The white one (no 150?) was in london ... white with purple int. IIRC it was owned by a Kuwaiti, then shipped to his country

 

150/150 is the perfect example of what makes some of the SE unique. It's the only SE in this color combination and it was custom built for Mr Bader Al Jaziri. It is currently in Bahrain.

 

Hey moderator......an idea would be to combine this and the other 2 SE30 threads into one SE30 thread? Just an idea....

 

Good idea.


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I understand people enjoy talking about the interior (including color selections) of collector cars. That is an important subject to talk about. However, it is such a small part, that makes up the entire collector car. With the SE 30 and other interesting sportscars, you have so many other important points to discuss.

Does the SE 30, warrant a substantial premium in price, over a 91-93 Diablo and or the 98-99 SV ? Is the weight all that much different ? If the weight is not all that much less with the SE 30, what are you obtaining in return, when you pay the extra premium over the other two cars ? Is it more, than a minor cosmetic special ? With the SV, you do have the better factory brakes. With the SE 30 in the U.S., you do have low production #'s.

 

The car is really much more than a minor "cosmetic special" as you asked about. For example, there are hundreds of unique parts to this car that make it lighter, more powerful, and faster.

WEIGHT: The following weights are taken by me at DMW approved scales. All cars had aftermarket (ie: lighter) exhaust, and 1/2 tank of gas. I have pulled out my 'real car weights' file to give you these weights, because I never believe the manufacturer's claims.

1. SE30: 3300# (Euro version without AC, stereo, and power steering 3150#)
2. 91/92 Diablo: 3480#
3. SV: 3550#
4. VT: 3800#
5. 6.0: 3880#
6. 2002 Murcielago: 3980#

So, the SE30 is much lighter than the rest. 2nd is the 91/92, but SE30 is still a lot lighter even though it has power steering and the 91/92 doesn't. How? Hundreds of unique lightened parts for the SE30. The list is long and includes, but is not limited to: Magnesium instead of aluminum alloys everywhere including but not limited to rims, valve covers, intake, etc. Drilled hubs. Drilled and vented brake disks. Drilled chassis cross members. Drilled pedals, and tons of drilled things you never see. Lighter doors w/o electric motors and steel regulators, and framework for glass. Lighter crankshaft and flywheel. Lighter oiling system including filter, cooler, lines, etc. More carbon fiber everywhere, especially interior including seat shells, interior panels, etc. Less insulation. The list is long and goes on and on and most people don't realize how much effort went into the SE to reduce the weight so much.

POWER: As mentioned elsewhere, the valves are different, the rotating mass is lighter, the ECU has a unique programming, etc, (and the other items mentioned by S.Lefferts), making it the most powerful Diablo as of its production date. As of the brakes, you mentioned the SV had better brakes. Let me correct that statement with the following facts: There were four versions of brakes on the Diablo.
1. ATE brake system with 330 mm front discs and 284 mm rear discs: 1991 to 1993
2. SE30 system: 1994
3. First Brembo system with 320 mm front discs and 310 mm rear discs: 1994 to 1997
4. Second Brembo system with 355 mm front discs and 335 rear discs: 1998-2000
The best system is #4. The second best is the SE30 system. Lamborghini was using #3 Brembo system on cars being build side by side with SE30, but that brake system was not used on SE30 because Lambo thought it was too heavy, compromising unsprung weight, so the SE30 system using lighter discs and calipers and real special pads (VERY expensive to get and you can't use other Diablo pads!) produced better braking performance than the first Brembo system, while keeping unsprung weight down to a minimum.

AERO AND VISUAL: The look of the SE30 is subjective, but most love the more aggressive and unique look with many design cues from the Miura (rear deck lid, eye brows on front fog/flashing lights...), and it is more aerodynamic with the revised front end and better deck lid, and rear spoiler.

Anyway, those that know REALLY know that the SE30 is a completely different animal than any other Diablo. It is as much different from other Diablos as the Porsche GT2 is from other Porsches, as someone aptly mentioned earlier. Any no Porsche guy thinks of the GT2 as a 'cosmetic special'!

So, given the above very brief summary of the differences, the market is correct to put a different value on the SE30. It feels more raw, connected, and racey because it really is.

 

Yes, this is all true. The time and effort they put in developing this special edition in order to make it as light as possible is impressive, and that for only 150 cars. The weight reduction as a result is significant. And actually, Lamborghini claimed that the couple of race versions of the SE that they made for the Japanese GT championship weight even less: 1200kg/2640lbs! But I guess they were a bit too optimistic here.

 

With the 91-93 cars weighing only 150 pounds more than the SE 30, the effort by the factory brings little in the way of true performance gains for the street.

The Brembo aftermarket brake package, will bring even more performance for the 91-93 cars, if that is required.

When buying a nice 91-93 car, the enthusiast could also purchase a good Countach or a 996 GT2, for around the same price of one similar condition SE 30. Is it worth the effort ?

I understand some people will believe it is. However, the bottom line, is that the enthusiast is paying tens of thousands more dollars, for a small performance gain for the street. With the U.S. car, it is even less of a difference in performance vs the standard 91-93 cars. Perhaps people are interested because the car is an exclusive Diablo ? The Monterrey Edition SV, is also an exclusive Diablo.

The 91-93 cars, are one of the best bang for the buck, genuine 200mph exotic Italian supercars available.

 

I am not sure Enthusiasts just look at performance as the benchmark. If they did no one would buy an F 40 when you consider a Diablo is faster and nicely appointed. The sum is greater than the parts. The SE30 in my opinion also signifies a very honest time in Lambos history where they were able to show that they too could use up to date technology and create usable performance in a way that other marques couldn't given the price.

 

I know that there was a Purple SE that had its interior CF "painted" to a shinny finish...in the thought of keeping the CF in good condition..HOG WASH...it ruined the look and the intent of the car..the CF would have outlasted the life of the previous owner.

"it ruined the look and the intent of the car" from what i recalled you where ga-ga over it.

 

Indeed. the 91-93 cars would be a great deal in terms vs an se30. However, my consideration when purchasing the se30 was the differences and details paid to the contribution of the car's overall characteristics. That was my primary consideration. I have driven plenty of fast cars and to me, knowing about the car, its raison d'etre was more interesting than just going fast. Knowing the automotive field, I can appreciate those changes even to this day as I know the amount of effort to make the se30 to what it is. And considering this was all done in 1994, it is pretty amazing as some of those differences are still very very advanced for today's vehicles. Dry carbon is has just recently over these few years been utilized more and more, pressure casted magnesium wheels? in cockpit antiroll bar adjustment? Those are all things that are still pretty trick now. And perhaps that is why I took an interest into the car, not for the weight reduction, but the effort by Lamborghini at the time to show that they too can be technologically advanced. Especially when Lamborghini engineering's access to F1 technology definitely trickled into the se30. And the more people know about this, the more they appreciate the se30 for what it is.. that is perhaps why it has been commanding a premium over a standard diablo.

 

Nope never was, show me where I said that..? The car belonged to a person in South Cali, I bought a LM 002 from him in Red...ahve since sold it. His SE30 was recently sold via Joe and Bob if I recall correctly...it also had the engine bay CF coated as well if I recall correctly...not my cup of tea.

 

Actually, if I may offer a small clarification please:

The car Gary Bobileff & I sold to a Canadian enthusiast had the "dry" carbon covered by 3M clear film. It wasn't painted at all.

The 3M film simply peels right off, and if I recall when I last saw it a prospective buyer had already started that process!

No biggie.