Mmm, yes, I noticed a pair of NASCAR commentators using that to justify their conclusion that the drivers in front of Speed were thus "better than F1 drivers", during a recent race. Odd!
This is such a STUPID conversation as to be funny. Bordais is clearly a great driver, this F1 experiment just didn't work. I think it is foolhardy to play the "IRL drivers can't cut it" in F1 because F1 is some super special series, suitable for only for the COOLEST drivers. Based on this LAME thought process, how has Juan Pablo done in Nascar????? (which is EASY according to this site. It's only turning LEFT, after all) What's that?????JPM won more F1 races than Nascar races. Does that mean he's a joke????? Oh wait, it MUST be equipment....Whatever..... I hope SB's replacement falls flat on his face. The kid never WON anything. He is the equivalent of a High school player going directly to the NBA. He is actually BETTER OFF having NOT played in the big leagues (in this case, college basketball) so that NO one can see his obvious flaws. Jimmy
Great post. You reinforce the lack of intelligence associated with Nascar. Use more capitalized words and quintuple question marks next time for even more emphasis.
Great post back at you. What, exactly, was your point. My post pointed out facts, your post pointed out, what? That I was taking up for Bordais (who is not, at last check, a Nascar driver) ? Well, you got me there. Jimmy Sorry for the excessive use of caps and question marks. Nice thought on the "lack of intelligence" comment. Thanks a bunch. Read my post again, please. I wasn't taking sides or comparing Nascar drivers to F1 drivers, I was posing a real question (I thought) and a very real scenario with a totally unproven driver who gets a shot because he is, indeed, totally unproven. By the way, how long have you been watching auto racing?
Despite your frustrations, some of us do recognize that Nascar is no joke. Here's what we know: 1) Sebastian was with the best team in champcar, by far the best team. His biggest competitiion came from old man Paul Tracy and F1 reject Justin Wilson, both driving for inferior teams. Champcar was very weak while Sebastian was on top, hell they were down to 17 cars in 2007! 2) Sebastian never really adapted well to F1. He was always complaining about the setup of the car, and how it doesn't suit his driving style. Bourdais himself even admitted that Vettel doesn't have any problems with the characteristics of the car. Those problems were Bourdais' alone. 3) He was getting consistently beaten by a rookie driver who wasn't that impressive in junior formula. 4) Sorry, but the talent level of drivers in F1 AND Nascar is greater than it is in Indy right now. Indy is diluted with slow pay drivers, see Milka Duno, Stanton Barrett, Ed carpenter and drivers who wanted to go to F1 but didn't have a chance as they were completely mediocre in European Formula. Examples include mario Moraes, Mike Conway, and EJ Viso. After that you're left with completely unimpressive drivers like Jacques Lazier, Sarah Fischer, Marco Andretti, and Hideki. The only really good drivers are guys like Helio, Dixon, Franchitti, and Kanaan. The rest are mediocre and inconsistent like Danica, Graham, Tagliani, old man Tracy...BLEH! Need I go on!? Indy is littered with mediocrity, guys who dream about a good drive in either F1 or Nascar.
F1 today has become a revolving door for the next great promising driver being compared to legends in their 1st/2nd yr. I remember to 70's/80's and drivers like Reutemann, Arnoux, Jabouille, Patrese, Cheever, Herbert, Alesi, Berger and many others driving their asses off and becoming not world champions but legendary drivers who formed part of the greatest era of F1. Not every new driver will become World Champ but lets not disregard that politics,money and todays F1 are clouding our view.......just a little bit....most of the guys getting a chance deserve it and need the time that todays F1 is not willing to take. Imagine the past #2's, Regazzoni, Villeneuve, Peterson,.... The F1 grid is full of great talent regardless of our views.....some of not realized though I will agree.... Bring back 26 car grids!!!!
We're constantly hearing drivers in F1 complaining about the setup of the car. We've heard this from Kimi, from Hamilton, from Rubens, from Button, .... And you hear it from *every* driver in Indycar. What I've seen, from following Indycars, is that the car setup is critical on ovals. How much throttle the chassis will hold through turns directly links to lap times. Two teams have pretty much dominated Indycar oval races. The road course races give the other teams a chance. Because it's on road courses where the driver can try to compensate for the car's shortcomings. That's what you might not get from an oval track driver transplanted to F1. But who was doing more car setup work at STR? Buemi or Bourdais? We don't know the answer to that. Nor do we really know whether Button or Barrichello is finding the better car setups for the Brawn. There's more to being in an F1 *team* than winning every race. Would Kubica have done as well, last year, without Heidfeld's inputs on the BMW? Remember how long people gave Kimi a free pass on being out-performed by Massa, due to the switch to B-stone tires? And there was something to that --- Kimi did seem to be concentrating on getting the best use out of the two different compounds, and did manage to make a decent showing that year. (WDC by a point). But at mid-year, his results weren't impressive, while he was still looking for the "sweet spot". The armchair racers here are pretty quick to dismiss a driver who got to "the show", just because he's not snagging the gold ring every race. For comparison, I give you .... Ide. Or for that matter, look how often Sutil seems to get tangled up with red cars. But dismiss Indycar as "wannabe" drivers all you want. Right now, it's still more interesting than the circus resulting from stupid rules, mismatched tires, testing bans, team orders, and whining children that make up the F1 fiasco. And I remind you that the F1 transplants to Indycar aren't exactly leading on ovals, either. But then, I can appreciate both oranges and apples.
No need to get all emotional. Fact is, Bourdais just doesn't cut it, end of. He had a test with a failing and bankrupt arrows back in 2002 I believe. He got signed by a team with no money, so it doesn't count. Then renault F1 gave him a call for a test driver role he and didn't get the drive. Here is where it all went wrong. Because he didn't get the drive, he rejected the offer by flavio briatore to manage him. So then he went to the states to drive champcar, got a good car with and as maxorido said, the field had talented drivers in slow cars and rejects in fast cars, so he wins. Now he's back in F1 and for two seasons he got beaten by drivers, who on paper, seemed worse than him. The end.
This is the ONLY post on here lately that makes an iota of sense. The TeenAge Punk probably will be with STR for Hungary and Valencia for TWO REASONS which is the almighty MONEY GAME. STR will get 2 million Euro for him read further . . . (they may need his money to pay Bourdais - he he) - - from f1 live Jaime Alguersuari's Formula One debut is being powered by sponsorship from two major Spanish companies. It is expected that Toro Rosso will announce next Monday that the 19-year-old Spaniard is to be Sebastien Bourdais' replacement for the Hungarian Grand Prix and beyond. Spanish media claim he is backed by the oil company Repsol as well as La Caixa, Spain's leading savings bank. Press sources claim the companies are advancing Two million Euros to the Faenza-based team, guaranteeing Alguersuari the race seat for the forthcoming Hungarian and European Grand Prix. Even if Toro Rosso decides to oust the rookie after Valencia, the team is able to keep the Spanish sponsorship funds, the newspaper Diario AS reported. Former Spanish F1 racer and Ferrari test driver Marc Gene is reportedly a close friend of Alguersuari, but he believes the youngster is facing ‘the most difficult debut in the history’ of the sport. "Jaime is ready, but there are lot of factors playing against him," the 2009 Le Mans winner told Diario Sport. He said the testing ban means Alguersuari has not done any proper circuit testing at all in F1 machinery, while Hungary is one of the ‘most difficult’ circuits on the calendar.
What's your point? I was simply stating a fact about Sebastian's position in F1. I didn't say he deserved to be sacked, but it's obvious that he was struggling from the beginning. If he had a better car he would obviously do better, but so would every other driver in any other series in motorsports. Also, about your implication that "I can't appreciate apples and oranges" I watch indycar regularly and appreciate the action that sometimes doesn't take place in F1. All this doesn't mean I can't look at something objectively, i'm not going to blindly defend Bourdais even if I do like him. I'm also not going to ignore the flaws in Indycar, although I watch nearly every race. By the way, i'm no arm chair racer, i'm at the track several times a month, so if you want to call someone out for being honest, go ahead and do it, don't hide behind inuendo.
Torro Rosso is a joke of a team. First, Scott Speed and now Bourdais. Their immediate dismissal of drivers is just a way to throw the attention off of their poor performing cars onto something else. No credible team does something like that. I am so sick of this team's antics........they should be thrown out of F1. They are an embarrassment to the sport.
Scott Ihaveno-Speed couldn't cut it in F1 and Bourdais isn't good enough either. They would have failed in any other team. Only difference is that no other team would have taken them on in the first place. They should be eternally grateful to TR instead. Poor performing cars? You might want to look up Monza last year and see what a real driver can do with these cars. TR is not an embarrassment to the sport but the entry ladder for new folks. As was Minardi and Jordan. They deserve a spot in F1.
Eternally grateful? LMAO....that's the funniest thing I have read in a long time! So, you feel a 4-times-in-a-row Champion in Champ cars is not good enough for F1? I couldn't disagree more. So the team had 1 good result the entire year in '08, and that represents the car? I would say that Vettel happens to be an exceptional driver - the car is still a piece of crap. So, when Tost (or whatever that jackass' name is) physically shoves a driver, that is not an embarrassment to the sport? No matter, I'll agree to disagree.
Bourdais was bested by two different teammates. Perhaps SB's lawyers will now best STR's lawyers, but that won't get the drive back. Racing is about what you've done lately, not what you did in another series; evidently Vettel and Buemi weren't overly awed by all those IRL championships. The IRL sent over its best guy and he couldn't beat two rookies - those are the facts. Driver complaints about tracks that don't suit them, cars that don't suit them, teams that don't support them, bad luck, are excuses. What makes a professional sport great IMO is the absolute necessity of producing results under all circumstances and on demand. SB didn't perform.
Bourdais never drove in the IRL, maybe you should get your facts straight before you state "those are the facts". He drove in Champ cars, which is a step above the IRL, and a step below F1. He is as much a rookie in F1 as those rookies he raced with. As I said previously....Vettel is an exceptional driver, someone who has shown he can be compared to the best in the sport. Vettel is capable of achieving much better results than the car has any right doing. Buemi, on the other hand, has not done much better or worse than Bourdais, and I believe the results that both of these drivers are achieving is an accurate representation of how crappy the car is. There was no justification in firing Bourdais over Buemi. If STR believes that the proper route for a team to take is to hopefully attract an exceptional driver to get them results rather than develop an exceptional car, then that is a losing proposition over the long run. They may get lucky, as they did with Vettel, but relying on that is a losing vision for a team.
On paper, what he accomplished state-side, he seemed a pretty good deal. The team finished an overal 6th in 2008. Ahead of big money guys Honda, Williams, Hell, even their A-team RED BULL! also ahead of force india, former Jordan. I think they did well in 2008. *vettel scored 35 of their total of 39 points I have no idea what you're talking about.
Primadonna Scott Toolittle-Speed got in an argument with Tost at the Nuerburgring GP (IIRC) and Tost gave him a push. Big whoops. Given the wrecks Scott Cantfindmy-Speed delivered Tost should have given him a much more deserved kick in the behind.
That just makes my point regarding how exceptional Vettel is You don't remember hearing about Tost shoving Scott Speed?
I've said it before the start of the season...SeaBass is just useless in F1. I still believe Sato could have easily outpaced him (which i think he did while testing) and did a better job. Just remember Montreal 2007. For a lousy car, he still had lots of determination to overtake Fred, which he did. Determination...thats something SeaBass just didn't have. Alain Prost mentioned earlier this year, saying that SeaBass is just too negative about things.
The irony of that statement: Prost was one of the biggest whiners and complainers in F1 (and got sacked for it from Ferrari). If HE thinks Seabass was a complainer, that must mean something.
Didn't get much coverage in the UK (where I was at the time) IIRC. I knew scott speed was suspended after falling out with the management though. Just googled it, seems that Tost was way out of line considering the rainfall at the time. Perhaps he was right about his previous performances though. In the end, no real man gets pushed by his boss and then goes and be gay about it by going to the press. He should have just punched him back.
