Maserati Khamsin

No pre order list: you will jinx me!;-) don't worry not expecting to beat Harry Potter sales!

 

Well I thought it was a good idea to write it in a clarifying demistifying manner as it is so different and most people will just get a short time behind the wheel and end up giving the car a bad report: journalists who then spread misconceptions and then potential buyers who get the typical short drive and don't have time to get used to it. once you do it all becomes second nature...but you have to be given the chance to to get there.

 

Hi Michael: yes just the right size for them: I can remember my dad having me sit in the back seat of a Merak at 11 to go buy the papers...on the way back I was allowed in front!

best regards,

Marc

 

Marc,
I agree and disagree here!

In those days the steering- and brake-system in connection with a high-speed sorts-GT-car were shocking - even for journalists! This is the reason why this great car is today much behind the value of every Daytona! And the Khamsin was financially not a success! The only three points that speaks for the Khamsin today are

1. the incredible look of the car!
2. the engine
3. its a Maserati

But its a fact that the attampt to combine the Citroen-stuff into a sportscar had no successor!! No manufacturer followed that path - not even Citroen!

I will always love the Khamsin - but I don`t like green french soup and this is the reason why I sold #052. Bon voyage!

Ciao!
Walter

 

@wbaeumer: I don’t know why you’re so negative about the LHM but in my experience there’s no problem with it as long as the car is serviced by a proper mechanic.
When driving the car I really have no problems with it (actually I like driving it very much), and I didn’t need much time to get used to driving the car either (I was surprised by that myself, because of the things I had read).
In fact, I recognize the statement that is made in several reviews, that the older Maserati’s are a bit “agricultural” when compared to the Khamsin (although they definitely have a lot of appeal too, no misunderstanding there!).

First and foremost the Khamsin is what you already stated, beautiful, a Maserati, and equipped with a great engine. In my opinion the LHM stuff is just a part of the design, a part that functions perfectly when the car is serviced properly, and a part that should not be blown up to such proportions as if it determines the entire car.

What I’m saying is: you should not have sold it !

 

you can call me Walter! :)
And I disagree: the LM-stuff is part of the technical specification. It has nuttin`to do with the visual design-aspects! To combine brakes, clutch & steering with one (!!) system is totally GaGa - and none did that again!
Yes, the everywhere "good mechanic". I had a very severe failure of the LHM-stuff as he piping broke due to bad (original!) connections! I don`t whish that to my biggest enemy what happened! My mechanic made no mistake here! He replaced ALL pipings with parts coming from the aero industry!

And: the LHM-system of all Khamsin I know are leaking more or less !

Don`t get me wrong here: IMO the design of the Khamsin is one of the most spectacular ever! But the package in total would have been much better if the car had been developed without the French input!

Ciao!
Walter

 

Walter: I´m not going to take the "Khamsin is the better car because...etc", because it is not. But besides being utterly spectacular design-wise, its pneumatics add to the futuristic styling, give lots of character and makes the car very unique.
The whole package is ...er... rather special, and I you like how the steering and brakes works, it a mindblowing drive.
My list of pros is therefore:

1. It looks incredible, like a Buck Rogers spacecraft with wheels
2. It has a great engine
3. Its a Maserati
4. Its a Maserati with the best from the french since moulded cheese: LHM
5. There is nothing quite like it, and it makes me giggle. A lot.

There are (lots of) other cars I´d like to own, but none of them combine far-outness and performance like the Khamsin.
(Replacing all the pipes with aero-grade stuff is probebly a good idea, though

Helge

 

You see, this is where the problem kicks in.

On paper, the Khamsin is right up there. Powerful V-8 quad cam with Webers, unequal A-arms all around, coil-overs etc.

The looks are just out of this world.

Then there's the small print. Of course there is power steering and PA brakes, with vented discs on all corners. This all seems to point to a fabulous GT that would keep its' own on a track occasionally as well.

The there's the very small print. The steering and brakes, and even the clutch are powered by some extraterestrial system (sorry, France needs to be classified that way) that has NO association with automobile construction whatsoever. Yes, it does set the Khamsin apart from all others. But, and I say this without ever having driven one, no, it doesn't do so in an appealing manner.
I have to confess that I have been, silently, contemplating ways to eliminate the LHM systems altogether if and when I would fulfill the dream of owning a Khamsin. Maybe, if and when this happens, I say that I was wrong, and keep it the way it is. I think though, that the biggest pitfall of both the Bora and the Khamsin are the adopted systems. They are otherwise way up there with anything one can throw at them.

I think Maserati at the time tried to set themselves apart from their competition, but the niche of a niche market is a very small space.

I am much looking forward to my first drive in one of these obscure beasts. In today's market they make for a superb proposition, and I'd be proud to have one in my garage. Wether it'll boast 100kg's of hysdraulics remains to be seen though!

Best,

Jack. (you can't send me off anymore, I'm already a Dutchman in exile)

 

...can`t agree more!

Ciao!
Walter

 

Helge:

great post!

Jack: drive a Ghibli and then drive a Khamsin. If you like spirited driving there is no doubt which you will prefer.

I drove a Mexico on Wednesday for about 20kms: very plush very bourgeois but it had the agility of a supertanker...I felt like I was at McDonalds dreaming of a dinner in a top flight restaurant...

As ALMC writes the hydraulic system is a part of the car, that is how it was made.

Walter I will send you some LHM for your birthday;-) Anything that is 30 years old can't be expected to work like new, that is obvious.

One thing that is very clear from my interviews is that it was Ing. Giulio Alfieri who chose to use the hydraulics. They were NOT in ANY way imposed by Citroen. Think about this for a moment, against the 30 year old perception that Paris ordered Modena to shoehorn this in whether they liked it or not.

As I explain in that how to drive a Khamsin article most people can learn and then in my humble opinion nothing else of that era compares. Emerson Fittipaldi reigning world champion in 74 called them the best brakes in any sportscar. The cluthc was feather light compared to the hugely heavy ones in rival cars, the steering was years ahead of its time, the other two hydraulic functions, headlights and drivers seat worked as it they were electrical. I haven't driven a Khamsin on track but the owner of 066 a few weeks ago at Le Vigeant circuit in france drove it with a friend in the car as I watched and they were as fast as 80's Ferraris and the owner confirmed he found no problem with driving the car on track, not with the steering not with the brakes.


best regards,

Marc

 

Hi all!

I used to be an "old school" Maserati fan for a long time. For me my uncle's Ghibli SS was always superior to the Khamsin - until I drove both of them back to back and was capable of driving them somewhat in the way they are meant to be driven.

Just two weeks ago, when I was back in Vienna for summer break, I got to drive them back to back again. It just surprises me every time how incredibly nimble the Khamsin feels.
And to be perfectly honest ... LHM or not ... I don't care WHY it feels more nimble and is less strenuous to drive; for me the only thing that counts is that IT IS more nimble than the Ghibli SS.
When driving the Ghibli SS, I have the feeling I'm lugging a motor yacht around the corners, not a sports car. (And this doesn't mean I don't love driving the Ghibli SS, it is an amazing car!)

Sometimes I just have the feeling that the main focus of the cars (driving them) gets a little lost in these technical discussions. Of course this is a forum with a lot of very knowledgeable people with invaluable information, so I can understand how differences can come up, even though we're all here for the same reason: our passion for an incredible marque.

And with that being said: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymfLhZyJ7A0
I'm going to post the video of the drive up tomorrow evening, as soon as I am done editing it.

Enjoy your cars ... whether Ghibli, Bora, Khamsin, Mexico, 3500gt or any other beautiful creation that came from the Maserati factory!

 

The cars being mentioned are all GT cars and NOT sports cars. They're too damn heavy to be sports cars. Now Walter loves his Merak but it is not an original Maserati as it's been modified to be more like a sports car.
People have done even more radical things to the Bora like remove the LHM brakes. It 's no longer a Bora. I have not as yet come to appreciate the steering on the Khamsin but I look forward to someone offering me a half days drive in a really nice example so that I might examine whether I could change my opinion. The brakes on these cars do take a little getting used to but I have driven my Bora on the track at 10/10ths several times and it was a lot of fun. For me the brakes were never a control issue. Would I race with it? Probably not. THEY'RE GT CARS GUYS!

The part about the system failing being a safety concern is bunk. I had a typical car with power steering fail once on a twisty, long drop off a cliff type road around Lake Tahoe in the Sierra Mountains. The pulley on the power steering pump snapped off and suddenly the power was gone! No system is failure proof. While it's true that the entire system operates under a single pump there are three accumulators and the braking system is isolated from the accessories. If you're driving a car with flat (discharged) spheres and I've seen people do that then you're an idiot because then you're running solely on the pump. Otherwise you can get several complete stops from speed from the accumulators if the pump or it's belt should fail. BTW, there are dual belts on the pump on my car.

Walter just does not like the "pea soup", period! He's entitled.

Personally, I think one of these cars must have leaked and stained his lederhosen when he was just a small boy ... ;>)

Bob S.

 

Marc,
accepted only when it comes in a bottle of CHANEL no.4!!!!!

Ciao!
Walter

 

Alexander,
please don`t forget: the suspension of the Gibli was still outdated when it came on the market! I agree with you on your comments about the better handling qualities the Khamsin clearly has over the Ghibli. But this is comes also due to the better suspension set-up of the later car!

I drove a Swiss Ghibli 3 yeaes ago that got better front suspension hubs! Wonderfull! This was the car to have!!! You could circle it around a roundabout with "one finger"!

Ciao!
Walter

 

Marc,
as much as I always admired Alfieri as a true Genius he was - he sometimes did too much: he tested a V12-engine for the 250F. It was not a quite simple design a lá Ferrari - no, no, no, it was highly complicated and turned out to become very unreliable.

Next issue was the unseccessfull 350S: unreliable, horrible front-axle-design! Then he tried fuel-injection with the big V8 in the Tipo 151: again a failure!

Then the mysterious GT-V8-engine with 4 valves: GaGa! Then the "let-make-from-two-Merak-engines-oneV8-motor"-try: hopeless!

A friend of mine purchased from the Panini-collection a rather unique 4-cyl.-motor: until today we don`t know WHAT it was really meant for...!

Ferrari at that time had 2 engines only: the V12 and the 6-cyl.-Dino-unit!

Instead of developing the chassis- and suspension components Alfieri spread around his activities in all directions and lost the main issue! Of course this all came -or better: it was influenced!- by the ownership-changes over a rather short period, together with a lack of cash on the bank-account of Maserati S.p.A.!

The Khamsin would have been a fantastic car with a transaxle-gearbox and without this French "dressing" - better than it already was!

Ciao!
Walter

 

Bob,
yes, leaking (!) was a constant "problem" between 18 and 28 years old! And at that time Lederhosen had been rather out of style in Swinging London while this cliche seems to be still very popular in the US in our days!

Yes, all this cars are heavy birds - a Daytona is also handling like a truck in lower speeds - but when it goes, it goes (albeit it horrible brakes!)!

Ciao!
Walter

 

Here is a video

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/SuperCars-Exposed-Rides_208408.htm

Which, even though it is produced by young bling bling fans, includes a visit to Doug Magnon's museum and some footage of his fly yellow black Khamsin AM1201046.

It was mentioned to me by Paul, another Khamsin owner who follows this thread so thanks Paul!

best regards,

Marc

 

Wow, nice collection!

I'll never get used to the Merkun pronounciation of coupe.

It also looks like every Tom, Dick and Harry thinks he can make a TV show about cars.

Okay, I start to sound like a grumpy old man...

 

Walter, in all honesty, I feel you are a bit too dedicated to the cause of looking for negative points about the Khamsin and even Alfieri!

What time are you referring to exactly? The 250F/V12 (racing) and the Merak (road car) were not built in the same time period as far as I know. And in racing it is not unusual to experiment and not be successful every time. So is Alfieri to blame here?
Looking at the road cars in 1974, Ferrari had a V6, a V8, a V12 and a Boxer-12. Maserati had a V6 and a V8. Does look very sensible to me.

About your statement that “no manufacturer follows this path, not even Citroën” about building a sports car with Citroën technology: Citroën doesn’t build sports cars at all, and most certainly not in the Khamsin league, so this seems to me a rather irrelevant remark?

Between the lines you mentioned (by mistake? ) a fourth and a fifth positive point for the Khamsin: better handling qualities, better suspension set-up. So your list looks like this now:

The points that speaks for the Khamsin today are
1. the incredible look of the car!
2. the engine
3. its a Maserati
4. handling quality
5. suspension set-up

I might add: 6. exclusivity. And I’m sure we can find more if we want to! Handling quality and suspension set-up are better than of the Ghibli (and Daytona?) I think, and this quote sums it all up:

The only thing to add may be that to make it all work you need to have your Khamsin serviced properly by a good mechanic, and it should be driven regularly.
And @f308jack, the LHM system is not as extraterrestrial as you think, to my knowledge it is for the largest part identical to what is used in many, many Citroëns, and the people that service my car (and a few other Khamsins) have NO “fear” for it at all.

 

Considering those presenters in the show are about 15 and think a Biturbo is worth talking about I feel just like you!

 

AMLC:

Excellent post: Walter can be a bit opinionated like that...specially when he spends a weekend alone...is your girlfriend away this week Walter;-)? Just kidding in a friendly way. Anyhow we have these animated debates every few months and we all never change opinion one iota... I don't know if the recurrence of these debates comes with the tides with the moon or with the winds...that's it it must be the winds...

I think I will go have a glass of wine on the terrace now: the Mistral is blowing nicely

 

Apparently being opinionated is contageous ... Is it really necessary to bash the Biturbo models Marc? I happen to like all of the Maseratis.

 

I am not a big bi-turbo fan, altough it was quite accomplished in its' time, but I had a somewhat bitter taste in my mouth when at the end of the video a b-turbo (looking like a complete car) was sent to the crusher. There are plenty people fighting tooth and nail to keep their bi-turbo's going, and that kind of disrespect is out of place.

I used to be quite fond of the 430; it was elegant, luxurious, small enough and fast. Just like their big brother (in style) the QP2, they didn't age very well.

 

AMLC,

I am quite aware of where the system came from, and that it is accomplished and working well.

What I am not so sure about is the application in a full-blooded GT like the Khamsin, but I am not knocking it before I have had the experience. It just appears to me like a very strange combination, hence my choice of the word extraterestial.

I am quite ready to be surprised in a positive way. Maybe a lot of the consensus the nay-sayers have reached is due to a high percentage of cars that are not in an optimal state of functionality?

Apart from that, I have a background in automotive engineering, and expect to be quite capable of doing the work as the need arises. The funny thing is that I have always ruthlessly refused to go anywhere near a Citroen other than a 2CV.

 

You are right I should be more open minded about them. What annoyed me with that video however is that these chaps had the opportunity to do something very rare, a nice video report on the Khamsin and to do so with a fly yellow car which is the color I want for my next one (and I only know of five fly yellow cars now: one project in Sweden, 1030, two cars in need of total restoration in the midwest, 1118 and 1160 and 1272 which is in Italy near Udine so this and 1046 are the only ones in running condition....and instead of talikng about the car at lenght they concentrate on speaking negatively about the Biturbo...why? The reason is probably because they were much more familiar with it, due to their young age, than with the previous models and had to work fast, on the spot, to do their little show. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink...

By the way I sold that Biturbo spyder, which used to be John Ling's (John onwed Khamsin 1054 at one time) when I worked at Motorcar Gallery to buy my Khamsin: small world.

Here is a photo of my car at Doug's between the Christie's Monterey 2007 auction fiasco and its sale, with Doug's help, to a very nice couple from Laguna Beach, not sure if I posted this before, sorry if it is a repost.

On the matter of the crushed Biturbo they copied Jeremy Clarkson who dropped a full dumpster on one in a show. By the way he is rumored to have tested a Khamsin in an early show many years ago, I emailed the show a couple of weeks ago about this but have not heard back.

best regards,

Marc
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