HELP...Block and heads being held Hostage

The law is very much the same in California but here and for that matter anywhere I am aware of they do not define machine shop service as auto repair unless it is a subletted part of the bill for a repair of the entire car.

If I bring in my car to have the starter fixed it is covered by the Auto Repair Act of 1971. If I bring my starter to an electrical shop it is not.

Besides which Art, you are a lawyer. How far is $5000 going to go in a legal fight?

 

I wonder if this a good alternative? If they want 5,000 just for deposit, chance is the whole thing will cost much much more, and this unfortunately an indications of the machine shop doesn't know what they're doing or the quality of the craftmanship...At this point maybe just tell them to make the price reasonable or they they can keep the dead engine?

Good luck.

 

Brian, the good thing about that is that most of these statutes provide for attorney's fees. Machine shop services, if they repair something on a vehicle that is registered as a motor vehicle (car, not boat) are indeed subject to the BAR (Bureau of automotive repair) and the law here. A lot of people here don't realize that, but it is a fact. Don't know about Canada. If indeed you can get attorney's fees, and you are in the right, it is a great hammer to make them do the right thing.

Art

 

Correct...and Agree. Not sure why he didnt start off with Rocks Auto.

To the OP (Peter) might be cheaper now to start over...or do they have your entire block now ?

Ask Rocco at 416.686-8700.....sometimes its cheaper to walk away.

 

The BAR is not in agreement and does not enforce it.

 

I know, they are lazy, but case law is against them on that issue. The empowering statute doesn't provide any exemption for the machine shops. California B & P Code 9880.1 defines Auto Repair company which must register and are subject to the regulations, and there is no exception for "machine shops".

Art

 

Are'nt BAR legal shops supposed to have a fidelity bond by law? Is it easier to go after them via the bonding company? If yes is there an easy way to do that without being a lawyer for example if both sides are arbitrated for merit one way or the other? I hear Ca courts are so backed up that civil is taking a back seat to criminal and even then for example in LA county I think I heard 10% of sentences are being served. And of course the powers that be think the answer is "gun control" but that is a whole other thread....

 

One can argue all day long about how a shop must provide a written estimate before doing work or other similar requirements - practically speaking, it doesn't matter. Who's going to enforce that on your behalf and get your parts back for you? A sherrif? Not likely, he isn't going to do anything - he'll say "this is a civil matter" and that'll be that. You're going to walk your attorney in there and make demands to get your parts? I don't think so. They'll throw you both out.

You've got two choices: a) play nice and try to strike a compromise (this is going to cost some $$), or b) engage an attorney and send a demand letter followed up by a lawsuit. In the case of b) good luck ever seeing your parts again.

 

Better solution: pay for the parts, then sue them. You get your money back, all of it, and you'll also get your attorney's fees.

Art

 

Consider paying with a credit card, and then dispute the charges. Or cancel the check.

 

From your first (and only) post, it sounds to me like the machine shop took your parts and sublet them to someone else to do the work, and round and round it goes. That would explain the delays, it would explain the inability to give you an estimate for time and money, it would explain some of the high cost, shipping your stuff isn't free, and they would have to mark up the sublet bill.

Did the machine shop ask for specifications/dimensions/clearances for your engine?

Have you spoken with the actual owner of the machine shop?

 

It's been a few days now, a lot of guys have had their say about this story.

It's time for a few more details before passing judgment.

A few photos and an itemized statement would be a good place to start.

 

Correct.....No question.

Choice "A" is the way to go. If B is done it should be after the fact.

 

And that will make you as big a crook as them. Way to go.

 

No they are not and the BAR has been ordered to be "Business friendly" anyway. Atilla the Hun can pretty much do what he wants. If it is not cheating on SMOG laws they pretty much can't be bothered.

 

This appears to be a very touchy situation. I deal with a few shops, and because I know and trust them, don't frequently ask for a written estimate, and I've been ok with that. However, I usually get an idea of the range that I'm looking at, and if there is more, then we deal with that as we go along. An example is a major, and you find out that you've got to replace the water pump. An extra 300 - 400 bucks. Good shops call, let you know, and you go from there.

However what we're seeing here appears to be a customer who didn't get an idea of the cost, and a shop that didn't follow the law, and is perhaps a little close to the edge on ethics. There are laws to deal with that situation, and the owner should write them a check, give them cash, and then go about getting his money back. He should at first at least offer them a reasonable sum for the work done, and if they decline, then get everything he gave them back. He can donate his windfall if he wishes.

Art

 

OH GOD! I can see this evolving into a nightmare similar to mine on my 1984 Countach (I am not going to bring the thread here as there are already two going).
I do not know how the law is in Canada however I will make some assumptions. If you did not sign anything and gave no deposit I would say that they cannot charge you for the work done as they did not provide you with an estimate. That also being said you now have no proof that you own the items that you dropped off.

If I were you I would contact the closest police department and pay for them to accompany you to the shop in order to retrieve your items. If they will not release the items without payment try to use a credit card. If they will not accept this then pay by check and stop payment on it if you are able to do this without problem in Canada. Then take the whole matter in front of the court and try to solve the money issues as best as you can. Whatever you do STOP DOING BUSINESS WITH THEM.

Best of luck, Vic

 

I would be very concerned what the finished product would be.

 

Wow! That's a surprise!..... They've already proven they have no idea what they're doing (see Rifledrivers "stud removal" post) - You now think they can do it right?.... In a reasonable timeframe? Do you now have an estimate for completion? [Time & price].....

Please keep us informed - I have a bad feeling on this one.....

+1

Good luck!

Cheers,
Ian

 

Just had this very thing happen to me , but not with the Ferrari. Had my air craft annual done by a crook. He got me good and it turned out to be the most expensive service in my aircraft ownership. Planes are a little different as laws go , but my wife salvaged 2,500 on delivery day by giving him a letter of request , which he had assumed was the final payment. Thus giving us the plane. He has harrassed and threatened us almost daily, but we are now working our way through the system. He overcharged me 15 to 25% over retail on parts and 50-400% on labor. He had failed to provide me with requested log hours and part invoices for final payment. Example of one of his labor charges was the installation of a new alternator which was basically a plug and play for 5 hrs labor (400.00). Talked with the Vendor and should have taken 1/2hr. Tomorrow will go to another aviation mech. to address costs etc before proceding. Once delivered he attemted to steal my aircraft from my hanger. Wish he had as in aviation to tamper or steal is a federal offense. To all esp. now be very careful who you deal with in this economony as the crooks have come out to play! Make sure you get everything in writing brfore you procede. Many times you are too busy or are ashamed to ask question or just feel cheap by asking. I was having problems with a kidney stone when this happened, just wasn't paying attention and it sure has make life interesting of late. I do have my plane however and it is tucked away safely, but he still took me for another 8500 that I am not sure as yet is recoverable. I feel your pain!
Docf

 

I agree with many comments, I think the way to go is if possible pay by credit card with no complaints, get a full invoice of work completed and parts, hours, charges etc. Take the completed work to your nearest ferrari workshop and have it assessed as to competency of work and have them assess what the hours, parts etc would tally and if you have been ripped off, gain affidavits from 2 similar work shops who are qualified and then rip into them as quickly as possible. in the interim stop paymant on your credit card while you are in dispute, do not just cancel the card, dispute the costs and register the dispute with the credit card company. I know that AMEX for example will reverse charges if there is a dispute and will investigate the supplier and his side of the story and this takes about 4-6 weeks. This will give you enough time to check the job was done correctly and to quantify the work actually done.
One thing though, did you ask for a quote, I know they said they could not tell you an estimate until the heads were washed but did they then quote you once they were washed? I know it is too late now howevr once they were outside a reasonable deadline eg the 4-6 weeks (which is BS) I would have collected everything and paid just for what they had done.
Unscrupulous shops like this should be closed down.

 

Still waiting for ANY specifics.

Lots of vitriole from the "lynch mob" but little in the way of facts to go on.

Let's see the bill.

 

YWIMC.
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LMAO!