Smells like huge BS.. Completely contradicting the article on formula1.com, as it follows: http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/7/9695.html BMW Sauber take heart from McLaren renaissance BMW Sauber boss Mario Theissen says McLarens victory in Sundays Hungarian Grand Prix will motivate his team, serving as proof that it is possible to recover from a poor start to the season and win. BMW Sauber scored 135 points last year. In 2009 they have managed just eight. However, with McLaren having taken only 14 prior to their Hungaroring triumph, Theissen believes his teams form could change just as rapidly. It is remarkable how quickly the balance of power has shifted this year, Theissen told BMW Saubers website. The entire field is tightly packed, and whoever manages to enhance the performance of their car significantly can make massive strides forward. That is encouraging, and provides a big incentive for our team. BMW Sauber have struggled to get a handle on the F1.09s lack of performance, though there were signs of progress in Hungary. Nick Heidfeld was second fastest in Saturdays final practice and Theissen believes both he and team mate Robert Kubica would have made Q3 had it not been for a mix of traffic, yellow flags and driver errors. Nick had proven the potential of the car, he said. Naturally the opposition doesnt show their full hands during Saturday mornings session, but our performance was still solid and thus we knew the car had the speed to post top-ten times. Despite making up places at the start, both drivers races were also blighted by traffic, with Heidfeld eventually finishing 11th and Kubica 13th. Nevertheless, Theissen insists development of the F1.09 will continue unabated, with updates planned for the forthcoming European Grand Prix and for later in the season. A new aero package is scheduled for introduction at Valencia after the summer break, and we have a comprehensive development package planned for Singapore, he added. In line with an agreement between all the teams, BMW Sauber will close their factory for two weeks at the start of August before heading to Spain for the next round. Why would they dump more money into a program that they will just drop at the end of the year.
Manipe F1 has a report similar to the one in Autosport. They describe the meeting as being "hastily called" and also assume the announcement will be of BMW's withdrawal.
Maybe this is because there will be no car next year to put money into, so all the money goes into this year's car.
I agree with you that the tea leaves seem to read that way, but why announce in the middle of the season? It seems so dramatic...wouldn't that make it a lame duck team? Wouldn't 2009 sponsors be upset by this decision? The suddenness of this seems quite irrational (not that ANYTHING this season has been rational haha.)
That is for sure. It seems that it was a board of directors decision. Given how BMW has been pinching pennies by decontenting their American market cars cutting the huge F1 costs is consistent.
BMW Group (BMW, Rolls Royce, MINI, and Sauber - which BMW owns 100% - purchased in 2005) has experienced an increase in car sales - nearly 130,000 cars per month worldwide. The BMW chat rooms and club organizers are very silent on everything about Wednesday's meeting, however the following press release gives a basic understanding of events leading up to Wednesday's announcement... Theissen: Prepare for all possibilities 10 July 2009 BMW motorsport director Mario Theissen has reminded both Formula One governing body the FIA and commercial rights holder Bernie Ecclestone that FOTA (Formula One Teams Association) is in no position to hold station over plans, stressing that a breakaway championship could still be formed if no full agreement is found between the parties involved in the never-ending row. With a meeting between the FIA and FOTA (which represents all current teams apart from Williams and Force India) having taken place at the Nürburgring on Wednesday, the gathering had been expected to finally bring a close to the ongoing row over the regulations for the 2010 World Championship, with a budget cap now abandoned but an agreement in place to reduce spending to 1990s levels. Despite numerous discussions, the future of Formula One still hangs in the balance A bombshell was dropped, however, when the FIA explained that - as the FOTA teams have not yet been fully submitted to next year's championship - no rule changes could take place, thus resulting in FOTA walking out of the meeting. With the FIA having since stated that FOTA was aware of this issue, threats of a breakaway series have emerged once again. "It is very simple," said BMW's Theissen. "There are still some irritating efforts which have surprised us; we still don't have an agreement, although I would say we are making progress, slowly but steadily. "We cannot sit back and wait to see if there will be an agreement coming our way or not, so we have to keep all of options open and that means we have to look at the other course as well. We are in constant negotiations and we might come to a conclusion - as the FIA indicates - in a few days but it might take a few weeks, or we might finally find out that there is no agreement so we have to prepare for all possibilities." Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Before we are too quick to vindicate Mosley on this one, let's think about it a bit... I'm sure Bernie's recent comments about Hitler knowing how to get things done didn't help (may have been the final straw, actually). I'm sure not having success this year didn't help (a testament to the idiotic rules over the last few years that mean it's a toss up who is fast) I'm sure the massive costs incurred on things like KERS, fundamental changes to body designs, and going from V10's to V8's (at the cost of billions over the various engine manufacturers) didn't help. I'm sure the Mosley Nazi hooker orgy story didn't help. I'm sure not having a GP in BMW's largest markets (USA, Canada, UK) doesn't help. I'm sure the German GP being threatened, the Japanese GP being threatened, the Australian GP being threatened, etc, didn't help. I'm sure a governance structure that lets a nutjob make up any rule he wants and fiddle with the results as much as he wants, didn't help. When you think about it, I'm semi-surprised that BMW, Renault, Mercedes, Toyota and Honda got as much value from F1 as they did. And actually I place most of the blame at Max's feet, with a healthy dose at Bernie's feet as well. And actually, F1 may be in deep poopie next year. There is no way USF1 is going to be a viable team next year. I'll be surprised if Campos and Manor show up on the grid either. Which would mean 8 teams, and doesn't Bernie need 18+ cars? With the way F1 has treated Renault, why should they stick with it when F1 needs them? Why should Toyota? Or Brawn? My .02
Gotta disagree with you this totally Andreas. The focus should not be on the privateer teams, it should be on creating an environment where the teams can make a business case to be there. It's not BMW's fault that F1 could not present a business case to be there. It's equally F1's fault. My list above - I'm absolutely positive that each and every item on that list weighed heavily in BMW's decision to bail, if indeed they are bailing out.
Perhaps with the recent comments by Bernie that Hitler "knew how to get things done", combined with Mosley having a nazi hooker orgy then flaming BMW after they criticized him, combined with no GP in their largest markets (USA, Canada, UK), combined with the latest BS of Bernie saying the German GP is likely to be gone, combined with the recent BS with Mosley saying he's going, then he's not, then he is, then he's not... then changing the contract when he faxes it over, then nominating the most biased person he can find (Todt)... ...maybe all of that was just too much, and BMW reached their breaking point? That's my guess.
One more for your list: the only substantive thing these guys (excluding Ferrari) can translate to their roadcars is engine technology, and now that's standing still too.
They have no choice. They have to make the announcement this week so they can avoid signing the Concorde agreement which would commit them to stay in F1 until 2012. This is bad news for FOTA. Max will feel vindicated. I hope that Renault and Toyota don't make the same decision.
FOTA's fault as much as FIA...Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum running around in tight little circles, much much talk and nothing getting done. Year over year uncertainty and lack of stability is enough to drive any sane company far away from F1.
Yep. Brawn has no money of their own, and they'll be a flash in the pan unless they find a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
The problem we have now is that in the last decade the cost of racing in formula one competitively has raised by 100mm (at the very least). Flavio said it himself. Back in the 90s they won the championship having spend $30mm. What was their budget in 2006 and '06? 200mm? Its the budget cap all over again.
As I said in my first post on this thread: The only interesting thing left to discuss is the future of the team in Hinwil. Throw in a Cossie and you have yourself a complete and functional F1 team. Somebody's gotta do it. As for BMW: Go swivel!
Why would anyone think it a good idea to put an over the counter engine in what seems to be a second rate chassis?
Making $$$ That's what Sauber was all about: They never raced to win, but as a business. Only BMW had the self diluding idea of actually winning the title. Throw out the KERS, rebalance the car and add in a Cossie and keep it low key (as the operation always was in Hinwil) and you have yourself another Force India. Not spectacular, never winning, but overall a money making machine and fun for all the participants. PS: Just to avoid confusion: I don't think Force India is making money, but I'm pretty sure Sauber was.
Sauber was competitive - Force India is not. There is a massive difference. A cheap chassis and engine, cheap drivers and a cheap afford is no way to make money. Minardi, Arrows, Spyker, Midland and others couldn't make money at it, why would anyone else be able to? If you are totally uncompetititve, you aren't going to get much sponsorship money at all. And when you don't win races, you aren't going to get any of the TV money back from Bernie. So you spend and spend and spend, and achieve nothing. The only way to have an F1 team that is earning you money, is to be at least a mid-pack team. That's why it worked for Eddie Jordan, and Peter Sauber, and Frank Williams. Descending into non-competitiveness is why Eddie Jordan and Peter Sauber are no longer team owners.
Eddie Jordan made a lot of money doing F1. Don't confuse competitive/successful team and getting rich owner...
Forget the cossies. Max is kaput. Get a Ferrari engine package, and go back to being the junior team. (Maybe keep Kubica on while waiting for a slot to open in the "A" team.) (Unless he jumps ship to Renault to take Piquet's spot -- with Alonso? ... Nah!)
