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308 V12 conversion begins

Discussion in '308/328' started by mk e, Oct 9, 2007.

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  1. duck.co.za

    duck.co.za Formula 3

    Jan 9, 2007
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    Dave
    #2626 duck.co.za, Aug 14, 2009
    If I understand you correctly you want a one piece manifold flange ? If so make the mounting holes , clearance holes by a big margin . That flange plate is going to expand !!! Possibly consider making it 2 X 3 pipe flanges ?
    Pitty you are not in my part of the world , I fabricate mainly in 304/316 st/st so there's loads of off cut laying around . Amaizingly from a heat transfer point of view thinner is better ( thinner wall keeps the heat in the exhaust ) . 304 can make beautiful headers especially if you purge weld them . Not sure if you are considering lagging them , but my experience with lagging is it just causes them to crack !!
     
  2. tknobby

    tknobby Rookie

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    #2627 tknobby, Aug 14, 2009
    Hi Mark,

    I think 18g pipe would be fine. I'm going with 18g on my set. I need this to help save a little weight. Flex coupling is good too. If you will have a problem getting the front header installed, how about building them as stepped headers w/ slip joints at the step? That way you would have a separation point to allow for installation. 2 3-pipe flanges at the head at 3/8" thick. Less stress on the mounting bolts caused by any warpage.

    T...
     
  3. tknobby

    tknobby Rookie

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    #2628 tknobby, Aug 14, 2009
    Mark,

    Just found this link...

    http://www.coneeng.com/pdf/Header%20Kits,%20Tubing%20and%20Bends%20PDF.pdf

    T...
     
  4. Pizzaman Chris

    Pizzaman Chris F1 Rookie

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    #2629 Pizzaman Chris, Aug 14, 2009
    Mark, don't over work him and for GODS sakes man, don't forget his nappy time. :)
     
  5. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #2630 mk e, Aug 14, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2009
    Yea, Meg's. That is where I was planning to get the collectors, but it looks like I need curved collectors so I'll have to make them. The other thing is they only have 1 radius and only 16g.

    Burns has 20g, 18g, 16G and 2 or 3 radii.

    SPD has 2, 2.5, 3, 4, 5, 6 inch radii in 20, 18, 16g....a little money though. A few choices makes a better looking header and I've got a lot of nesting going on in the way the pipes run.
    http://www.spdexhaust.com/U-bendsB.html

    20g is 1/2 the weight of 16g.....just sayin :)
     
  6. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #2631 mk e, Aug 14, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2009
    What do you mean by "lagging" ? I was kind of thinking of using the 20g and bolting the collector to the engine, then a flex coupler right after to take the load off the tubes.....is that what you are talking about?

    Thinner walls are lighter too :)

    Yes, I was planning to purge. Wil pointed out that Burns (and SPD) sell Solar Fluw which is supposed to work as well as purging. They also both have .035" filler rod....although working with .028 wall 4130 I found I prefered standard .062" rod to the thin stuff. I may get a lb. of the rod and see what think.

    I can't have big clearance hole....then the header to port alignment can't be controlled very well. 2 flanges then maybe.
     
  7. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #2632 mk e, Aug 14, 2009
    How about 20g then? It's lighter you know. What are you build?

    They are not going to be step headers becasue the Burns software says no. 2 flanges with 3 pipes is easier but tends to make it really hard to get the damn thing to fit after welding. I could put a slip joint at the 2 into 1 collect easily though and that would solve any alignment problem as well as the how to install it problem.
     
  8. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #2633 mk e, Aug 14, 2009
    He had a great time playing noodle swords with me but was a little sad when I put the swords on the car.
     
  9. tknobby

    tknobby Rookie

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    #2634 tknobby, Aug 15, 2009
    Mark,

    I'm building a set of headers for my rear engined flat 6 car. The American flat 6. With the engine in the rear and more than enough rear weight distribution I need some help with weight reduction. Hence the 18g headers. I think the 20g SS pipe is Ok for a track car but mine will be a street/autocross car and the 18g pipe will be a little quieter.

    T...
     
  10. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #2635 mk e, Aug 15, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2009
    Yes...I didn't realize who I was talking to. Sorry.

    Yuo think the 20g would be louder becasue of the tubing wall of is it more that racers tend to use the thinner tubing and put loud mufflers on? I hadn't given any thought to the head being a souce of noise, I was thinking the only thing that really mattered was the muffler....but I my very well have that all wrong.
     
  11. tknobby

    tknobby Rookie

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    #2636 tknobby, Aug 15, 2009
    Hi Mark,

    That's quite all right. You talk to a lot of folks.

    I think the thinner tubing is used for the larger ID more than weight. That's why I'm using the 18g; I need the ID for my set-up. And the thinner tubing Will be noiser. Not too much more on my rear engined car but on your mid-engine with 6 pipes right near the firewall, it might be something to really consider. Of course your valve train will also be making some music, too.

    T...
     
  12. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #2637 mk e, Aug 18, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  13. Pizzaman Chris

    Pizzaman Chris F1 Rookie

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    #2638 Pizzaman Chris, Aug 18, 2009
    Looks good Mark.



    Is there any other option on the one pipe that goes over the bellhousing? Now where else to snake it threw?
     
  14. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #2639 luckydynes, Aug 18, 2009
    Mark,

    Shouldn't you be figuring out how to feed the world or provide health care to everyone for free?

    This is still a good cause but sometimes you could take a day off and save humanity or something :)


    cheers mateee :)
     
  15. Etcetera

    Etcetera Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #2640 Etcetera, Aug 18, 2009
    That's mark, always innovating.

    Although I do not think rubber hose is going to make a good exhaust system material.
     
  16. tknobby

    tknobby Rookie

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    #2641 tknobby, Aug 18, 2009
    Mark,

    Those Do look very nice. SS tubing will be nicer to work with; not so wiggly as that insulation.

    T...
     
  17. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #2642 mk e, Aug 18, 2009
    It has to go over the bellhousing, that is the only way out I'm sorry to say as some dumbass lowered the engine ;)
     
  18. PittsS2APilot

    PittsS2APilot Formula Junior

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    #2643 PittsS2APilot, Aug 18, 2009
    Don't you think you've "fooled around" with this project long enough? Its time to get busy and make some noise! :)
     
  19. Hans

    Hans F1 Veteran

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    #2644 Hans, Aug 19, 2009
    Yeah!

    Look at those poor brake disks. This car has been sitting there far too long!!!

    ;)
     
  20. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #2645 mk e, Aug 19, 2009
    I'm trying! I'm trying!
     
  21. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #2646 mk e, Aug 19, 2009
    Today's big move was ordering the material for the header flanges. It's something at least.
     
  22. KKRace

    KKRace Formula 3

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    #2647 KKRace, Aug 19, 2009
    Don't listen to him, keep working and taking pics
     
  23. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    #2648 Spasso, Aug 19, 2009
    Don't listen to these guys, they can only hope to be as crazy.
    Being crazy takes a lot of hard work.:p
     
  24. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #2649 tazandjan, Aug 19, 2009
  25. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

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    #2650 f308jack, Aug 19, 2009
    Yes, what Terry states here is right with me. No H or X will make it better. I'd like to see on what grounds it is suggested.
     
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