Ethanol Risk?

Yes it can. Fuel lines, rubber seals, carb gaskets, alloy fuel tanks, etc. are all attacked by ethanol.

We use stabilizer which seems to help but IMO you have to start and bring up to full operating temperature every Vintage car at least every three weeks.

Best

 

I know we've been around the block on this a couple times, but, isn't another serious issue with older cars, like the Dino, that ethanol has a much greater detergent quality? Tends to scrub the crud off the lines, fuel tank, carbs etc, and while that may SOUND like a good idea, in practice it can tend to gum up the works.

Also, with more ethanol, the cars are more susceptible to vapor lock.

Not all good things come with modern science, eh?

DM

 

Not to mention that the volumetric efficiency is less so MPG drops as well. We definitely change fuel filters more often these days.

It's interesting to note that P 4/5 on US fuel soot's up at the tailpipe more than on European fuel.

Stabilizer seems to help that as well.

 

Jim, what brand of stabilizer are you using, and in what proportion?

There's a station here in town that sells "non-alcoholic" gas, but it's only 89 octane (the main customers are marine outboard users). I wonder whether there might be any benefit to mixing this 50/50 with ethanol-blended 93 octane.

 

We use:

http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/stabil/default.aspx

and mix in Castrol Go Kart Racing oil @ 200/1.

 

It's definately a problem, Dave Helms has discussed it with me..

Mercury Racing is reworking all the older outboards..

You shouldn't be needing 93 octane on any Ferrari made in the 70s......I run 89 in everything...

I don't think you can find any fuels now not "stretched' with ethanol......

Like Jim I am changing plugs anf fuel filters a lot more often than you'd think, I agree it's slowly putting all the old fuel varnish back into the lines and thru the enghine.....

 

The outboard guys really need to replumb the carbs....with the new material, Dave Helms is using it on many of the later Ferrrari too..

I don;t know the name of it but it carries a Marine Rating of some sort as they have always used fuel additives to fight and emulsify moisture..

 

Stabil's good, another new entry that is really popular with the marine bunch is Star Brite.

 

Really? In that case, I guess I'll try it next time I fill up.

 

Your Dino is a 9.X:1 compression ratio. I'd run 91 in it. the 10 cents a gallon you save by running 89 vs. the risk to the engine, especially considering you might be driving 2K miles a year? even at 10 mpg, you'd save $20 A YEAR. Hmmm... penny wise, pound foolish.

 

The question arose because I can get non-ethanol 89 octane, not because I want to save any money.

 

Gotcha, but do you think the risk is greater to the fuel lines, etc, or to the engine from the lower octane? I'm really wondering what the general opinion here is.

Kind of the same question, isn't it?

If you run the 89 without ethanol, and have a problem with pre-detonation, is that better or worse than having to replace some fuel lines, or cleaning the gunk out of the carbs?

I dunno, I think I'd risk my fuel lines before I'd risk the top end of the motor. I guess the dollars are different, doesn't boil down to $20 anymore, it boils down to thousands.

Oh, and let's get URO in on this. He's been running ethanol fuel in a Dino for a couple years, and I ran ethanol fuel in it a couple years before that. And in the NE, it's all 10%.

PAGING DIC DOC.

Are you there???

DM

 

4+ years on from the last post and with Ethanol increasing in our petrol, has anyone had serious issues with this. Will the increase to 10% (E10) give more problems to the classic car owner? (possibly 15% in the USA)

Ethanol when mixed with water forms Gums in the fuel system. This coats fuel system components including filters, carburettors, injectors causing all manner of problems

Ethanol absorbs water/ moisture from the air and holds it in solution and therefore can dilute the petrol in your tank by stripping octane out of the fuel. This causes fuel to seperate and leaves a layer of ethanol / water on the bottom exactly where most fuel pick ups are!!

Daily used cars seem may be OK but classic cars infrequently used may be more of a problem.

Corrosion of internal engine components - Water contamination causes corrosion

Contaminanted fuel with Galvanic corrosion: Ethanol is more highly conductive leading to corrosion if electrically dissimilar metals are present in the fuel system

Short shelf life - as short as 60 days hot problems (poor hot starting, hesitation etc) and cold weather problems (vaporisation problems)

Ethanol is a strong solvent and will cause problems with rubber hoses, o-rings, seals, and gaskets. Fuel system components made from brass, copper, and aluminium may oxidize. Remember weber floats are brass!!!

Attacks Fibreglass and even melts it!

There are a few firms that now market an additive to combat the corrosion problem only, with the impending increase to E10, are they any good or are we just throwing good money away? These additives apparantly will not stop the destructive nature of Ethanol in old fuel systems so will we need to think carefully about fuel system components when replacing hoses etc.

Tony

 

what is the purpose of the castrol gokart racing oil?
plz elaborate on the 200/1 ratio.
ed

 

If you can get a NON ethanol 89 octane I would use it . In my area I cannot get the non ethanol product but I know it is made primarily for marine use in other parts of the country . THe 89 octane should be fine.could even mix it with the 91 or 93 with ethanol to reduce the amount of ethanol.
LarryH

 

what about aircraft fuel? ethanol in it too?
i live close to laguna seca, is ethanol in racing fuel. now that stuff is expensive, but maybe worth it when all things considered.
ed

 

Tony,

About 5 years ago I replaced all my fuel lines with new (www.superformance.uk supplied) and cleaned/rebuilt the carbs, fuel filter and pump. Car does just less than 1000 miles a year on standard shell high octane. Winter warm ups every couple of months. Car started with no problems last week. No leaks, petrol fumes or issues to report. So if there are any problems, I don't know about them.

Not the same as my hedge trimmer that I tried to start this afternoon!

Kevin

 

I use V Power in mine and like you Daviekj never had an issue with fuel systems and the trouble some suggest. Mind you VP does have ethanol in it. However with increasing the % of ethanol in fuel to 10% and the likelhood in may go to 20% in a few years, doubling the doseage so to speak may just have a more dramatic effect on old classic car fuel lines & components etc.

If everything is compatible with E10 then it may be the better fuel to use but old engines were never designed for this fuel.

Guys, i resurrected this thread to see what has been learnt from 4 years of running with Ethanol in our fuel systems. Previous posts are over 4 years old, so lets not go over old ground!!

 

Avgas does not contain ethanol.

Not all race gasolines contain ethanol. Since you are in California though, the street legal race gasoline has to contain ethanol.

The Trak Tek TT100 from CP Chem is ethanol free. TT101 has ethanol.
Shell URT 100 has ethanol. The URT 105 does not.
VP should have various blends w/o ethanol.

If the gasoline does not mention ethanol but has an oxygen content around 3%, it has ethanol. 0% oxygen=no ethanol

 

I'm using Stabil Marine in my old cars and boat.
MARINE Stabile is not a fuel stabilizer, it is a treatment to counteract the effects of ethanol among other things.

 

How does marine stabil counteract ethanol?

 

I am not sure that it counteracts all the effects of ethanol . I use non ethanol racing fuel in my old corvettes that have high compression engines (11 to 12.5 to 1) . My source has gotten more difficult to get so if you have an available source that you can even mix to cut the ethanol in half it will great improve the longevity of the rubber parts etc. On the other hand if you drive the car a lot and do not let it sit you will not have as many effects. I have been using ethanol premium with sat bil in my dino with decent results but once I get my racing fuel source solved I will start using a 50/50 blend which I think will solve some starting issues.