458 Italia no more Manual

I think the gotta-have-a-stick contingent is overrepresented here. If the rumor above -- no manual for the 458 -- is true, it's because Ferrari anticipated a miniscule order book for manual 458s.

I have a theory that resistance to paddle shift systems is based on jealousy about a skill -- being able to drive a manual -- passing into obsolescence for all but classic car enthusiasts. In the real world, maintenance considerations aside, what could be better than a car that has no torque converter or slushbox issues, shifts faster than a manual, won't let you f#ck up gear changes and, at the touch of a button, can be driven like an automatic?

There's the durability aspect you mention, which I think is right -- used Ferrari buyers are probably smart to stay away from yesterday's F1 technology in favor of the mechanical simplicity of a manual box.

And there is also the nostalgia aspect. A manual in a 328 or Boxer or Daytona is exactly is it should be. In the newest cars, a manual is almost an anachronism. I see the flashing lights in the steering wheel on the 599, the video dash, digital displays, etc., and it borders on weird to see a lever and gate on the center console.

My daily driver Audi has the DSG/paddle box. It fits the technical nature of the car perfectly. It's fun in its own way, although I'm still getting used to it after 18,000 miles.

The 328 is old school, so the Industrial Revolution-style gated shifter meshes with the car's purpose.

Agreed. I think it could be the most desired of the modern used Ferraris for a while.

 

When you say the words "paddle shifter" many cars come to mind. When you say the words "gate shifter" one car company comes to mind.

The belief that the young generations are gung ho for ultra high tech devices in their cars is overrated. I get more stares and thumbs up from rice rockets and honda civic/tuner type cars than any other segment. BMW particularly touts this push the tech envelope argument as a sales tool to gen x an y but again most kids still love the 2002 and the E30 M3.

 

Porsche is also keeping the 3 pedal flame lit.

 

And I think you've hit a major nail on the head here as well. And yes, I have a manual 360

 

There's a definite shift between old school and new school thinking. We are pretty much at the turning point where you can look both ways.

I would not buy an Italia with a 6 speed but I still think it should be available.

I personally think the ultimate sports car should have the ultimate systems. Linking the F1 to traction control and other systems only makes sense to acheive that. Using a 6 speed is like making a jet fighter but not giving it retractable landing gear.

That being said, I would like to see Ferrari "remake" the 308. Sure, it won't be the fastest car on the lot. And it won't have the best high tech electronic systems. It won't be the most expensive. Not all of the interior would be hand sewn leather. But, it will be a fine handling/mid engine 3 liter/6 speed car at about 3 times the price and 6 times the quality of the Lotus.

Think of it as the Porsche Boxster version of Ferrari. The Italia would be the 911, this remade 308 would be the Boxster. Call it a Dino of you want as it would make no difference in the sales of either.

Oddly, if this car were offered with a paddle shifter, I'm sure it would outsell the 6 speed as well. Most people now addays either don't know how or don't like to shift.

My 308 revisted dream car will never happen though because production caps will prevent such a massive venture. Too bad really. I'd be first in line to buy one.

 

Newman has a brand new one for sale for you and it's got a stick shift!

 

Well, I want a new car though. A modern interior, AC that actually works, ABS brakes, more power from the 3 liters, better mileage and emmissions, better quality with dealing with paint and rust, a true spider, and a freshened up look. I've had 2 308's and while they are fine cars, you couldn't sell a single new one today if the same car where offered in today's market.

 

That's a nice dream.

 

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned what a double edged sword the Ferrari manual gearbox is. The stick itself is an absolute masterpiece, an iconic work of art. And the feel of the change is just wonderful - you can practically feel the cogs meshing through the stick as you change. You can almost feel the quality of the oil in the 'box. But... I can't be the only one who's had a heart in the mouth moment as a result of gearbox recalcitrance. Line of traffic, short straight, floor it, into the outside lane, just enough space, slam in the next gear and... F••K! Straight into the gate instead of the next gear! And now there's a car coming the other way...

 

Can't you special order one? Wasn't there at least 1 599 and/or 612 in manual? Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

+10000 .... 100% agreement with what I would have said.

Thanks,
UZY

 

Option A: The 2009 Boxster is waiting at your local Porsche dealer. It has a warranty, 3.2 litres, a choice of gearboxes, nice paint, decent fuel economy and outstanding brakes (some of the best I've ever experienced).

Option B: The only solution to the "I want a classic but it has to have auto climate control, programmable cupholders, daffodils falling out of the tailpipe, 40 mpg and 500 bhp" conundrum is to start with a classic car and have it updated. Because no car company can bring back the era in which the 246/308/328/Boxer were made: legally, it ain't gonna happen.

One company that does this in a packaged way is Eagle in the UK, who update old Jags with modern cooling, brakes, etc., and then sell them for a mint. Supposedly they leave the character intact and remove the heartache from E-Type ownership. Previously the best way to remove that heartache was with a classified ad or a fuse to the gas tank.

Option C: Man up and deal with it. The a/c, brakes, emissions, etc., on a 300SL Gullwing, Porsche Speedster, Ferrari Daytona, etc., are what they are. People got along without car a/c for decades, and there's no law preventing you from repainting a 308/328 with modern materials.

As far as the "true spider", apparently Bugatti and Lotus think a lift-off roof panel is fine on their $1.2M and $50K cars, respectively.

Again, I see a Porsche Boxster in your future.

 

IIRC several 599s have manuals. not many but a few. very rare.

 

Spock said it best, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".

I love manual Ferrari's, and I will only ever own a manual Ferrari. But if Ferrari has decided it dpes not make any economic sense to offer a manual version of their cars then so be it. The last figure I heard regarding the % of those requesting manual transmission cars is below 10%. I find this ironic because in Europe, a person is considered almost handicap if they do not drive a manual transmission car.

The other part of this I would consider is that these F1 shift cars are for the road, not track. Those who say, "well, I will see better lap times if I use a F1 'box car" are a small % of those who may actually use the F1 'box for what it was used for. The rest will just gloat about how they have an F1 'box.

 

I respect the car but can't stand the whussy image. It's also too cheap, too common, and not even in the same league as a 308 as far as looks.

I seriously looked at a Lotus a few years ago but couldn't stand the crudeness and the Toyota engine... no matter how good. It's also rather ugly IMO (sorry any owners out there) with little black scoops sticking out everywhere and a frog-like nose.

The 308 was a great car. I don't see why it can't be brought back aside from marketing issues.

As to "Man up" well, I'm way past that. In my 30's I put up with the AC in a 308. Compared to my Dino's lack of any AC, it was a dream. Today, I'd be appauled. Your average econobox Kia works better. I don't see why we need to suffer just because "it's a FERRARI".

 

For all you manual shifter enthusiasts, it might be useful to review a few facts. First, there is no difference between the transmisssions of F1 and manual shifter 355, 360, 575M, 612, f430, and 599 Ferraris. Even the clutches are identical. Only the shifter mechanisms and throw-out bearings are different. F1 Ferraris use manual gearboxes with electro-hydraulic shifter mechanization.

Dual-clutch transmissions are completely different animals with two gear trains engaged simultaneously. They are not compatible with a manual shifter and a clutch pedal. So Ferrari would have to build a completely new transmission for the 5% or so of buyers who want a manual shifter. This also is not feasible because dual clutch transmissions are very compact and lightweight devices and there is no room allocated for a larger and heavier manual transmission.

So, in all likelihood, a manual transmission will not happen for purely technical reasons.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

I think the F1 boxes have 3 synchronizers in some gears instead of two to handle the higher speed shifts. Otherwise you are right. I figured when the California debuted, sticks were history but then they said a 6 speed stick would be offered. I don't believe they have actually made one yet however and I would bet they never will. One of the reasons I decided to put a deposit on what would be a 430 back in 2002 was the thought that the demise of stick shifts was close at hand and if I were ever to get a new Ferrari with a stick, I'd better do it then. At the time, there were about 20 people ahead of me, but I was the only one who wanted a stick which turned out to be the 6th coupe they delivered. Call me wierd or a troglodite, I can handle it.

Dave

 

Bingo. A very small percentage of these cars ever place a tire on a track. At the annual meet, there were 3 430's on the track plus 2 or 3 scuds. Mine was the only manual but I also saw a manual 360. No problem keeping up with the paddlers and even passing occasionally. And spiders are not even allowed in most events. At the nationals, they could only run in the slow group, yet virtually all are paddle cars. I have nothing against paddle cars, I just find there is not much to do when driving them. I like more activity.

Dave

 

Regardless of whether you prefer paddles or sticks, I would think everyone should feel some sadness about Ferrari's traditional gated shifter being relegated to the past. It's one of those things where even if you don't want one, you think it's cool they are still available.

Dave

 

Dave- There is no difference in the F1 and manual shifter transmissions at all. You may be confusing the 550 transmission, which had dual synchronizers and no F1 option, with the 575M, which had triple synchronizers for both manual and F1 shifters.The transmissions for F1 and manual shifters on the same model cars are identical.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Not just because it's a Ferrari, but because it's a pure car and an old car.

If you took a 308 and tried to remake it so that it had all the comfort and safety features of a 2009 car, you would have something that didn't look, sound or feel like a 308 anymore. It never had enough vents, and the interior defies any kind of audiophile speaker arrangement. Airbags would ruin the steering wheel and dash. Sat nav would ruin the low profile dash/console. And the whole 308 design is noncompliant with safety regs (windscreen distance from your head; airbag clearance in door; etc.)

I guess my definition of "sports car" is all about the parts that make the car go faster. The top is supposed to be off, and if you're driving it right you shouldn't be able to hear the radio.

 

You'll be in favour of paddles, then?

 

yes well said

 

Terry is right, I mentioned the samething in another thread about this, the 360 and 430 cars are built the same way regardless of the tranny used, I do not think that is possible with this car. I doubt Ferrari will do the changes needed to build such a small percent of the cars. You could always take the route I've taken with some of my cars, take it apart and redesign it yourself with the manual tranny from a 430, though I'm guessing the weight would throw the whole car off balance.

 

I understand that the paddle shifter is better, faster, cutting edge technology. I just don't want it for my driver.

I like the feeling I get when I'm in a car working the pedals and the shifter. It makes me feel connected in some visceral way that I can't quite put my finger on. Perhaps it's a subconscious nod to the legacy and heritage of the cars I grew up loving. Maybe I'm just officially "old" in my tastes? Then again I enjoy changing my own oil, detailing my own car, and finding any excuse to buy and use more tools.

I like my steaks rare, my women hot and passionate, and my sports cars loud, raw, and uncompromising. I'll take a no frills, balls to the wall, eye watering car that melts my brain and leaves me grinning every time I get out of it but I want to shift it myself.

I'd even pay extra for a traditional manual and if it's not available I'll pass and choose from one of the many incredible older models that have one.