458 Italia no more Manual

I've let good drivers both male and female drive my Ferraris and everyone has trouble learning the gate its itimidating, but that's the fun learning something that takes skill, I never miss a shift in my Ferraris tell in an instant which gear I am in with the gate, on my Porsche its not clear sometimes which gear I am in and its vague, the gate may be an ego thing but Ferraris are an ego thing absolutely, with the new F1s a 80 year old granny can drive one like Schumi blipping through the gears, yeah I am old fashioned like macho toys but its what separates the men from the boys posuers from the drivers is the ability to be able to actually drive vs be seen in a F

 

Mmmm... seems to be a certain macho snobbery among some of the stick guys. Even your choice of the word 'intimidating' is a little telling. Tricky, recalcitrant, certainly. But 'intimidating'? No. Well, not unless you have some very weedy friends. No wonder some people think Ferraris are nothing more than penis extensions.

 

Well the ladies I let drive my cars commented on the gate and were concerned about shifting with it and possibly damaging something.

Penis extention excactly now for those who never learned to drive with a stick or can't. They need a penis extention the most or an implant.

 

For modern cars, yes.

But my reply to Bdelp was regarding reimagining a 308/328 with modern conveniences like climate control, sat nav, etc.

I think there is some snobbery going on. Technology has robbed us of the pride of skill in driving a "real sports car".

 

I think a lot of folks here miss the reality of development expense: Ferrari would have to spend a lot of money to fit a manual to this new product - it's not cheap to do. That'd be fine if there were a large market to amortize the cost but the HUGE majority of buyers order F1 gearboxes.

BMW gave in to the American market's cry for a clutch and made manual M5's. Guess what happened? They sat on dealer lots, requiring incentives to move.

 

Yes, flappers would be dead weird in a 308! I love the 308, it's the Ferrari I grew up with and I'm always tempted to get one. But I just know I'd be so disappointed with the drive after being used to F430s and Gallardos.

 

When I got my 430, the sales manager was sure I would either sell or mothball my 328 but that did not happen. I drive the 430 more but it is still a joy to drive the 328. Every time I do, I am reminded of what great manners it has and the tactile feel you just can't get with anything newer. I met another 430 owner at the nationals who also owns a 328 and TR, all bought new. I quote "somehow the 328 is still my favorite". I guess it depends on your expectations, but I have found that every 308 and 328 I have ever driven (about 15) was just plain fun albeit not very fast. Conversely, I have driven fast cars that weren't much fun.

Dave

 

I've understood that for quite a few years. I thought Ferrari might make a stick at the same price as paddles and then eventually phase them out. But the 7 speed dual clutch probably makes that step null and void. I can't imagine they would sell very many 6 speed manuals vs 7 speed paddles, especially in a car like the California. With less than 20K units of a model being made, there are already very few to amortize costs let alone perhaps 1000 manuals.

Dave

 

Allow me to play devil's advocate for a moment by posing the question:

For those who favor paddle shifters because it is faster, better technology what would you buy if Ferrari came out in the near future with a 100% automatic that was faster, better, and the latest technology? No need for paddles, downshifting etc. Just drive, park, reverse, and neutral. The computer would do everything for you from downshifting to corner and pass to "heel/toe" for track driving.

What if there was some development that led them to move their entire product line to automatics. No gated shifter, no paddles. Just a single lever or dial and the computer does the rest?

I think I'll keep my shifter kart just in case that ever comes to fruition!

 

Isn't that pretty much what a dual clutch system will do when put in auto mode already? I still wouldn't get a 458 or 430 with a stick, and this is coming from a manual 360 daily driving guy.

 

With all due respect to the people that love the manual shift, I had a 355 manual and now have a 430 F1. Oh My! I love the paddles. Its so easy my wife can drive the car! LOL Didnt everyone see the Top Gear show with the Grandmother, a little kid and a dog driving a car with F1 paddles?

I truely dont say this in a negative way as I am sure people get used to what they have or know but I can understand why Ferrari is going away from manual. Basically I see it as why the buggy whip isnt used any more, LOL, there is something better.

 

For that question to have any relevance is to assume that paddles offer no interaction with your car and the only reason to choose flappers over a stick is because it changes faster and it's the 'latest, greatest thing'. That's not an assumption I can go along with. While I fully understand the joy of stick, I find the way you interact with a paddle shift car really fun. I also think the stick thing is a little over sold. The way some people talk about heel and toeing is a little over the top. I mean, you don't have to be a Ninja to do good heel and toe, it's not that difficult. Tricky to perform well, and to be learnt, sure. But it's hardly like trying to learn one of Paganini's harder Caprices.

So the short answer is, no, I wouldn't buy a fully automatic Ferrari. But then, I wouldn't buy any fully automatic car.

I had a daft idea some time back. Get a paddle F430 and then buy a stick and gate as spare parts and get some rouge dealer to fit it to the car just for the look! Now that's my perfect F430!

 

Don't get me wrong, I do like the paddles and I appreciate their F1 roots and sheer performance. I just prefer the manual and would hope Ferrari would at the very least offer it as an option. Although I can agree that it would probably be technically/financially prohibitive as mentioned above.

Ferrari certainly isn't opposed to add on options to rack up some profit as evidenced by all the current little badges, stitching, etc. that you can custom order. Hopefully they'll figure out a way to make a few extra bucks by offering manual as an option for all of us dinosaurs that would pay for it.

I love technology and have many, many toys in that genre but I personally don't like gadgets doing certain tasks that I would prefer to do myself. This doesn't come from sort of elitism, heel/toe nazism, or glorified sense of self worth. I just enjoy the connect from being more involved in the process. I'm funny that way!

I don't mind technology programming my dvr or helping me code html but I don't want it shifting my car for me.

 

Good points. From my point of view, I want the latest technology on new cars and I will enjoy manual on old ones.

 

Excuse me and let me just chime in on this one, although not an owner I’m a huge Ferrari fan (P car on the garage at the time!).

Paddles or Manual it doesn't matter, it's all about fun and enjoyment, whatever fits the bill to each individual. A Ferrari (in fact any sports car) is a silly car, its only purpose is to provide unbridled enjoyment! Market realities are inevitable and if it doesn't make sense economically the manual is gone the way of the Dodo. However...

Why tell me that "I'm a dinosaur" because I do enjoy more working on a manual box, heel'n'toeing, etc? Why ride a bike up a mountain? All that pedalling, effort and sweating? Just drive a Corolla up there and be done with it.

I will indeed be sad the day Ferrari stops making manual boxes, not crying foul, but sad as a car and driving enthusiast. Now, where did I leave that Miles Davis vinyl LP...

 

LOL

 

There is more to making the car exciting than just the shifter, and this is what saves Ferrari (and hurts some others).

I have always found the Gallardo a great car but sterile - until I drove one with a manual. What a difference!

But I have always found the 360 and 430 to be more exciting with paddles. The transmission is better suited to a motor that likes high revs. Part of the Ferrari mystique is to be as close to the race cars as possible. The CS is a great example - you don't see anyone poo-pooing them just because they are F1 only, and that is certainly an enthusiast's car.

All of this may help the Audi R8. The Lambo 560 is available with a stick, but I was told you basically have to pay for the car up front, because they don't really want to make them. So Lambos will essentially be all paddles from now on too. But most of the V10 R8s are coming with manuals, and I bet that motor in that chassis would be a hoot with a manual. There was an orange Superleggera in Chicago with a manual - now that may have been worth a very close look.

With the scud and the 458, you are almost missing the point WITHOUT the lightning shifts.

Oh, and you can have a manual with a dual clutch. You just have to have three arms and three legs

 

I agree with both of you J. Salmon and 312P.

I personally prefer the paddles for being on the track- but for driving on public roads I prefer the stick shift.

I think it would be a shame if they didn't make any Ferraris with stick shift, but it would be worse if they built a compromised product.

 

The paddle vs gearshift debate has been going on here for years now, and I think we all knew that at some point Ferrari was going to end the debate for all of us, at least with their new cars. I had both my Gallardo (egear) and my 997S (gearshift) out today for about a hour and a half each, and each gearbox has its good points. In tight spots it is much easier to move a gearshift car around, but the speed of the egear shifts and not having to take your hands of the wheel are a plus. My 997S is my favorite car (and that includes every car I've owned even my Ferrari's), though I spent a ton of money making it that way. I have already told my dealer I want a 458, and I am sure I'll enjoy it, and I have a feeling I wont mind that it does not have a gearshift. In the end it is all about enjoying the feeling of driving these machines, and I am glad I have been lucky enough to be able to.

 

The manual gearbox makes the driver feel like the piece that bounds the power with the movement.

Releasing the clutch..and matching the revs to put the car in movement...is just irreplaceable.

Ferrari gear shifter looks so mechanic.That is the beauty of driving....felling the machine....and controlling it by mechanic interface...now the steering and the paddles lost there mechanical looks and feel.

Now all this looks like a gadget's interface....

Just imagine a 458 with gear shifter....(+manual enzo! )

 

They confirmed today that there will be no manual gearbox on the 458 Italia.

 

I understand why they are going this route but it is a very sad moment for me personally.

Now if they make a four door or suv I'm really jumping ship!

 

As an engineer, I think the hard part of designing a manual Italia would be routing the cables and so on. The tranny itself should be identical, minus a bunch of heavy actuators, but unless they allowed for a durable, rigid cable path, it'd be hard to add after the fact.

I'm also guessing that they'd have allowed for such a cable path just in case markets called for a manual.

But I hope they don't make one--as a Christmas 2009 delivery Spider I've probably got one of the very last manuals ever.

 

No,
I think it was said during the unveiling on Sep 9th.