Acceleration: F40, F50, Enzo, CGT & Veyron | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Acceleration: F40, F50, Enzo, CGT & Veyron

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari/F80' started by Bill S, Aug 30, 2009.

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  1. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    "Jungle Jim" 4 Sure.
     
  2. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    .
     
  3. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
  4. Tenney

    Tenney F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Feb 21, 2001
    4,286
  5. Tenney

    Tenney F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Feb 21, 2001
    4,286
  6. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
  7. NWaterfall

    NWaterfall Formula Junior

    Aug 2, 2009
    564
    The Track
    Full Name:
    Waterfall

    The CRG Road Rebel is sure a fantastic chassis to drive!! Especially in the turns... :D
     
  8. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    #33 Bill S, Sep 2, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The 20 year old magazines are trickling in. So far I have the Car & Driver times for the F40 and F50.

    The F40 is faster than the F50, and both are slower than a Scuderia.
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  9. SSNISTR

    SSNISTR F1 Veteran

    Feb 13, 2004
    8,046
    SFL
    In the real world we all know that isn't the case. If your gonna magazine race at least don't use the worst times....
     
  10. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    Sorry, this is the real world for straight-line acceleration of US cars below 130 mph. Check the videos I posted. They're all consistent with the magazine numbers, and my own measurements of the Enzo agree with the magazine numbers.

    And if you're referring to the F40, I've raced 2 different F40s. Under 130 mph, they are about the same as a Z06 or a Ruf 993 Turbo R.

    The biggest problem (in the "real world") is that some CGT, Enzo or Scuderia owners don't take their cars to redline before shifting. I've had a few people tell me their cars blew away a CGT. Then when I raced then in my own CGT, I blew them away to their surprise. You need to take the new normally aspirated cars to redline. The turbo cars are a bit more forgiving if you short shift because they usually loose power near redline anyway. And, their redlines are lower so the owners are more willing to take them to redline. The CGT redline is 8,500 rpm!! That's an exciting trip up the tachometer!

    BTW, I'm waiting for MT and R&T for the US F40 and F50. If you have those magazines for the US F40 and F50, please scan and post if not too much trouble. I don't know when I'll get my copies.
     
  11. Murcielago_Boy

    Murcielago_Boy Formula Junior

    May 27, 2004
    495
    UK
    Full Name:
    The Dark Lord
    Bill,

    Do you know if the Enzo/Scuderia times are achieved using launch control? (indeed this could apply to the Veyron as well).

    It may be worth noting then that the times recorded are not achievable day-in day-out if that's the case.
    These statistics serve to reinforce my long-held opinion that the Porsche Carrera GT is a comparative performance bargain. (although the European/UK market is slowly realising this as prices continue to fly up and away....)

    Nik.
     
  12. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    With the Veyron 4 sure with the others likely. Your point is valid re: Enzo/Scuderia. If you hard launch them every day you will see large clutch bills very soon. The Veyron is different. It has oil encased dual clutches and can hard launch all day, every day for a long, long time.
     
  13. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    I'd have to go back to the articles to double check, but I would guess that MT used launch control for the Scuderia. C&D usually uses launch control, but I don't think they did for that Scuderia test.

    I usually don't look at any time that starts from 0 because there are too many variables. Personally I never launch my cars hard, so times that start from 0 are not really important to me. I'm more interested in 60-130 times. I included some 60-100 times because they are more readily available from the magazines. You can see that the 60-100 times for the Scuderia for C&D and MT are nearly the same, even though the 0-60 times are pretty far apart.

    The CGT is VERY fast... nearly as fast as the Enzo below 130 MPH. Its 60-130 times show this (7.3 vs 7.0 in the Enzo). But you do need to take it to redline on each shift (the Enzo and Scuderia also). You can easily calculate how far a CGT will pull on an F40 or F50 from 60-130 (both starting next to each other) because we have those acceleration numbers for every 10 MPH. You just need to do an linear interpolation in Excel. I'll post those "virtual race" results when I get a chance. But you can see that the CGT quarter-mile trap speed is over 10 mph faster than an F40 or F50 with about a 1-second difference in elapsed time. That's a very large difference when it takes a car another second to pass the quarter mile mark at these speeds. For example, that's 176 feet at 120 mph, or more that 10 car lengths.
     
  14. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    I think your policy of not hard launching from zero is a good one. The sound of an Enzo clutch hand grenading is not something you soon forget.

    (Mine came apart at 4K miles after 1500 track miles and a number of hard launches)
     
  15. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    What clutch setting do you use now? I'd like it to shift a bit faster, but I do like the reliability of a "medium" setting.
     
  16. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    We experimented and made it slightly faster than "Medium". We felt the fastest setting was really a bit too hard on the clutch. Keep in mind we're lighter than you are so slightly faster shifts bang a little less on P 4/5.
     
  17. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    #42 Bill S, Sep 3, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    AND NOW, THE REAL-WORLD RACE WE'VE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR!

    Veyron vs Enzo, CGT, F50 and F40...

    All start at 60 MPH and race for about 10 seconds (10.3 to be exactly)...

    ...and the Veyron pulls 16 cars on the Enzo!

    ...the F50 pulls almost 2 cars on the F40!

    ...and the amazing CGT is only 2 cars behind the Enzo and an amazing 12 cars ahead of the F40!

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  18. rossocorsa13

    rossocorsa13 F1 Rookie

    Jun 10, 2006
    2,557
    Nashville, Tennessee
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    M
    Fantabulous, Bill. Thanks for compiling this info and running the simulation...

    Amazing about the Veyron's sixteen car lengths. Truly remarkable. Nice to see the F50 out in front of the F40...at least in this test. Just in light of all the negative power-to-weight talk when compared to it...

    Great stuff!
     
  19. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    #44 Bill S, Sep 3, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  20. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    #45 Bill S, Sep 3, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2009
    Yes, the F50 does pull the F40 in this race from 60 mph... but the F40 will catch it about 3 seconds later.
     
  21. ScreaminRevs

    ScreaminRevs Formula Junior

    Apr 4, 2004
    411
    Chicago
    If the CGT traps 131 mph, you're saying F40 & F50 are only 121 mph?
     
  22. bounty

    bounty F1 Veteran

    Feb 18, 2006
    7,769
    San Diego, CA
    Maybe not the right thread, but where would a formula 1 car end up in those graphs/images I wonder?
     
  23. bbs911

    bbs911 Formula Junior

    May 31, 2007
    590
    Dallas
    #48 bbs911, Sep 4, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2009
    Bill,

    Awesome compilation and interpretation of data! Thanks so much for sharing and go CGT!
     
  24. SSNISTR

    SSNISTR F1 Veteran

    Feb 13, 2004
    8,046
    SFL
    A F40 traps over 125 in most cases. Remember this race wasn't exactly scientific.
     
  25. SSNISTR

    SSNISTR F1 Veteran

    Feb 13, 2004
    8,046
    SFL
    Why is that? The F40's boost is starting to come on strong? It's not easy to catch a car once it's pulled ahead like that. So if you went for say 20 seconds, not 10, how many cars do you think the F40 would have on the F50? 2 or 3?
     

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