What damage hath I wrought? Please help... | FerrariChat

What damage hath I wrought? Please help...

Discussion in '308/328' started by logan308, Sep 2, 2009.

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  1. logan308

    logan308 Rookie

    Sep 2, 2009
    2
    Santa Monica, CA
    Full Name:
    Logan B
    It must have been the 10th oil change I've given her, but this past weekend, I changed the oil "blind" as I usually do- low profile collector, reached way under the car without raising it. I'll skip the whole story, but I did the unthinkable: I drained the transaxle oil, double filled the engine oil.

    Got about 3 blocks and realized things were not good. Engine was running "sluggish" and then the smoke started. I hate my life right now. The entire top end of the engine is filled with oil- air filter to plenum. The muffler is bleeding oil. The transmission was noisy. As I dig in, I fear whatever else I will find.

    Please help me speculate about all the things to check and points of failure to go over at this point.

    Engine:
    -clean and inspect blow-by system (seemed to take the brunt of it!)
    -clean and inspect air filter and injector platform
    -clean and inspect throttle assembly and plenum.
    -Pull plugs, check for pooled oil to avoid hydrolock
    -Probably remove the muffler and steam clean to avoid fire hazard?

    -What seals or other failure points should I look to?


    Transmission:
    -inspecting the transfer gears should be easy.
    -should I look deeper in the transmission?


    Any help thinking through all the implications of this very stupid move would be really appreciated!


    ps. on a lighter note- imagine what it was like draining about 18 quarts of oil. Exxon Valdez 2009!
     
  2. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,601
    Gates Mills, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Jon
    I don't know where to start.

    I would guess the catalytic converter is toast, but that's probably the good news here.

    I guess changing the oil blind isn't a good time-saving idea.
     
  3. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    Logan

    Of course, it would be better if this had not happened, but it may not be such a big deal. I have heard of this mistake happening a number of times, so don't feel too bad. I have been involved with a car that underwent the same trauma. I won't repeat the whole saga here. Go the "Hawaii" section and look for an old post that is titled "My favorite rental car story". This car was driven much further than yours with no oil in the gearbox and it continued in service for quite some time without anything other than a fill and a flush and a re-fill of the gearbox oil.

    Keep smiling!!
     
  4. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,386
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    I don't think three blocks is gonna hurt the drivetrain???

    Refill it, get your engine level back down to normal..

    Sell the car......



    j/k.....
     
  5. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

    Jun 7, 2007
    4,300
    Cape Town, South Afr
    Full Name:
    Jack Verschuur
    At the very least get a new air-filter, clean everything up (including the crankcase vent, take it off and clean), bring the oild levels to normal and see what you have.

    If the car has a cat, you can put a straight pipe now:)

    She'll smoke for a bit untill the oil in the exhaust has burnt off.

    When in doubt, do a compression test after running it.

    Hopefuly you didn't blow any seals.
     
  6. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2006
    15,814
    Cerritos, CA.
    Full Name:
    Mike
    You might want to tow it to a shop that has a lift then drain both engine and gear oil as they have a large capacity used oil bin. You now have around 20qts. of oil so I would drain it for at least overnight just to make sure. And as mentioned above check your cat.
     
  7. mustardfj40

    mustardfj40 Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2004
    1,142
    Northen California
    Full Name:
    Ken

    I agree, 3 blocks wasn't bad especially if you started out slowly, I would fill the tranny up, drive around couple blocks, drain it, then refill it again.

    And also drain the engine looks for leaks and give it another oil change.


    OK, did you post your serial number so we can keep track these kinds of thing?.....J/K :)
     
  8. PhilB

    PhilB Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 17, 2004
    2,325
    Southern New Jersey Shore
    Full Name:
    Phil
    If the cam belts got all oiled up, you need to stop everything and replace them before starting the car again.

    However, despite their so called reputation, these motors are resilient. Clean it up and put the right fluids, quantities and new filters where they belong, and then start out slow and go for a drive.

    I agree with Bullfighter, if the cat isn't bad now, it will be once the car warms up again and cooks the oil in it.

    Phil
     
  9. chrmer3

    chrmer3 Formula 3

    May 19, 2006
    1,719
    USSA
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Better than draining all the oil out & filling with antifreeze :)

    Bummer, 328 tough lil cars, I agree on the transaxle... 3 blocks, it should have had enough residual oil on the splines to be ok..

    Drain all the oil out, & try to get the exhaust clear...

    Keep fire extingusher near by after warm up ....
     
  10. ramosel

    ramosel Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2004
    1,237
    Meadow Vista, CA
    Full Name:
    R Moseley
    Wouldn't that be the ENZO Valdez??? (been there, join the club - leaky Ferraris that is)

    A local did the same thing about 3 years ago and drove 4 miles that way. The trans is noisy cuz it was not bathed in oil but most of the new oils are very "clingy" and will do wonders for short periods. As long as you didn't push oil into the cylinders and hydraulic the heads and bend the rods, you should be fine.

    With Tom's car, we drained it for two days, occasionally cranking the motor by hand using the nut on the front of the crank. We took off the cats and muffler and after refilling the motor and trans to proper levels, ran the car with no mufflers for about half an hour. Smoked like a chimney the first 15 minutes then cleared up. We changed the plugs after this run-in. He stood the muffler up and let it drain for a couple of days, flushed it with gas then water and let it drain and dry some more. Convenient, as it took a couple of weeks to have the cats sent out for rebuild. When the cats came back, we put it all together and he's still driving the car today - 4 years later. He no longer does blind oil drains...

    Rick
     
  11. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 4, 2001
    36,473
    Birmingham, AL
    Full Name:
    Tommy
    If it makes you feel any better, I did the same thing once. It was actually the night before a track day too. I even let it drip all night (the transmission). The next morning I just filled it up with oil and drove to the track which is about 5 miles from my house.

    On the first lap I blew a cloud of smoke that is probably still hanging around there. I immediately pulled off and checked the oil level which was obviously too high. I still had not realized what I did when I decided to go back to the house and drain the excess. Even the transmission whine that I only first noticed on the exit ramp on the way home didn't tip me off. It was only when I crawled under it and reached for the plug did it finally dawn on me. It was probably my 20th oil change too. I never ever made that mistake before and I thought it would never happen to me...

    What could I do at that point? I just refilled the transmission and emptied half the oil and returned to the track. There was nothing else I could do. If I were going to pay to rebuild something I wasn't going to until it actually broke.

    Here is the amazing part: That happened in Mar 2004 and about 25,000 miles ago. I have even been back on the track about a dozen times since then. No problems in 5 years and I have no earthly idea why.
     
  12. rsqrd308

    rsqrd308 Formula Junior

    Oct 27, 2007
    357
    Phoenix AZ
    Full Name:
    Rick Roth
    I always wondered why on some older Porsches they used different size fasteners in 'blind' areas. If you had the right tool size and it didn't fit, you would stop before you did something wrong.
     
  13. 308GTS

    308GTS Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2001
    2,223
    TN
    The gearbox oil plug on a 308 is a different size allen than the oil plug.
     
  14. PV Dirk

    PV Dirk F1 Veteran

    Jul 26, 2009
    5,401
    Ahwatukee, AZ
    Congratulations, I think the group has decided "no harm no foul" Clean her up and enjoy your car. Let us know. Although I do like the idea of making sure no oil on the timing belts.
     
  15. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,605
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    Those germans are pretty smart hah?

    3 blocks are not bad. Clean up the mess and see ...

    My smoke in the engine compartment story was scarier. It involved flames. Luckily I had a Fire Extinguisher with me. Driving a 30+ years old car, with 4 webbers, a fire ext is mandatory and it saved the day that one time.
     
  16. logan308

    logan308 Rookie

    Sep 2, 2009
    2
    Santa Monica, CA
    Full Name:
    Logan B
    I've been in meetings all day, nervous as all hell to get out and see what the jury had to say!

    Seems like i've got some work ahead but the consensus is good. Thanks everyone! I'll report back once I get everything running again for the fc record.
     
  17. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie

    Oct 19, 2007
    4,786
    Marin
    Full Name:
    Geno
    I did the same thing 2 year ago. didnt have oil bleeding all over the place, and in fact you couldnt tell anything was different. engine was a little sluggish, but that is all.

    drained the oil overnight, refilled everything was ok.
     
  18. CliffBeer

    CliffBeer Formula 3

    Apr 3, 2005
    2,198
    Seattle, Washington
    Full Name:
    Cliff
    Your transmission will be fine - just fill 'er up to the proper level.

    Sounds like you realized what was wrong before hydrolocking the engine - that's the good news! As suggested, take off the exhaust system and flush and drain. I'd take off the plenum and filter and clean that up. Various parts of the emission system are going to be fouled but might clear without going to too much effort. I'd check out the cam belts to make sure oil didn't squeeze out somewhere and foul those - some oil could encourage skipping a few teeth and accelerate deterioration of the rubber part of the belt.

    You shouldn't have to take apart the whole engine/heads if you're careful. Good luck!
     
  19. mike

    mike Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
    721
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Mike
    No suggestions, just sorry to hear this. Some sage wisdom here follow and you will be ok
     
  20. DwightM

    DwightM Karting

    Dec 16, 2008
    56
    Mill Valley, Ca.
    Full Name:
    Dwight the Flyer
    Sorry Logan. Not sure on this one.

    Transaxle is a must first, and then a buttload of Margarita's.

    From reading the other posts, this is not pretty.

    Good luck bro,
    Dwight
     
  21. andy2175m4@yahoo.com

    [email protected] Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2008
    473
    Los Angeles, CA
    Full Name:
    Andy Rein
    Good advice from your Ferrari brethren, clean up the mess, and get on with it...no permanent damage.
     
  22. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
    3,045
    +1
    I'd be surprised if you hurt anything. Get the levels right with the proper fluids. Cleaning the cat is a good point. The cam belts should be dry?? I can't see how the oil could get on them. Don't be too hard on yourself, so many stories like this. Hopefully you'll fix her, shake it off and enjoy the car.
     
  23. chris marsh

    chris marsh F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 30, 2005
    5,760
    Detroit
    Full Name:
    Chris Marsh
    I did this but realized before I started the car. Can I expect a big cloud of smoke or am I going to be OK since I did not start it?
     
  24. 350HPMondial

    350HPMondial F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 1, 2002
    5,327
    18 mi from the surf,, close to Pismo, CA
    Full Name:
    Edwardo
    big cloud,, keep extinguisher handy.

    Should be ok,,
    Engine Oil is made not to Burn, with additive antioxidants, but, it will if you get it hot enough.

    Edwardo
     
  25. MarkJ

    MarkJ Formula Junior

    Sep 10, 2006
    729
    NW Arkansas
    Full Name:
    Mark Jones
    Whoa... its probably toast. I'll give you $10K for what's left. (Just kidding; glad to hear you caught it so soon.)
     

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