Acceleration: F40, F50, Enzo, CGT & Veyron | Page 4 | FerrariChat
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Acceleration: F40, F50, Enzo, CGT & Veyron

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari/F80' started by Bill S, Aug 30, 2009.

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  1. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    #76 Bill S, Sep 6, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Some people were surprised to see the Enzo pull so strongly on the CGT in the Mojave video. I was also, and we confirmed the CGT driver was shifting quickly and to redline.

    So I got the GPS data from TB993TT's CGT runway run and added it to the simulator after C&D's 130 mph mark. The results are more what I expected (see below). I can only conclude that the CGT at Mojave had a problem, or the altitude affected the CGT more than the Enzo because of the CGT's smaller displacement engine.

    But the data shows the CGT slowing considerably compared to the Enzo over 160 mph, so I suspect the CGT will drop further back as the cars approach 190 mph+. I'll post some GPS data I have for those higher speeds.
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  2. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
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    #77 joe sackey, Sep 9, 2009
    Bill:

    Did we ever settle on when & which car was the very first Supercar to actually be timed to top 200 mph?
     
  3. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    #78 Bill S, Sep 9, 2009
    Production cars designed, built and sold by the factory for the US market, or any production car?
     
  4. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    #79 Napolis, Sep 9, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2009
    I believe two cars claimed that record in 1968. ( Production Sports Cars as defined by the FIA, fully road legal with full road equipment including a spare tire) The Ford GT MK-I and The Lola T-70 MKIII B.

    Both were US Legal as they were manufactured in 1967 or earlier and were sold by the Factory to US owners.
     
  5. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
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    #80 Bill S, Sep 9, 2009

    Interesting! I didn't know about those cars.

    What US production cars produced between 1970 and 1990 exceeded 200 MPH?

    Hint: Not the US F40.
     
  6. Tenney

    Tenney F1 Rookie
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    Feb 21, 2001
    4,292
    #81 Tenney, Sep 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Neither of which are mileage-sensitive ...
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  7. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    #82 Napolis, Sep 9, 2009
    Around 1972 the Porsche 917 which was also a production sports car as defined by the FIA went 256 mph. There was one road registered in Alabama.
     
  8. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    #83 Napolis, Sep 9, 2009
    Great Photo!
     
  9. Tenney

    Tenney F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Feb 21, 2001
    4,292
    #84 Tenney, Sep 9, 2009
    Early-Napolis.
     
  10. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    #85 Bill S, Sep 9, 2009
    Now that's the ultimate street weapon! I'd love to see a photo of that thing on the street with plates!

    Some may argue that the 1990 Lamborghini Diablo was the first mass-produced US production car to exceed 200 MPH. R&T tested it in 1991 at 202.2 MPH. But it's not clear if that was the same one you could buy in the US.
     
  11. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #86 joe sackey, Sep 9, 2009
    Bill:

    I was indeed thinking of a "mass-produced US production car" as you define it, conceived & designed for the road, and not a road-going version of a competition car.

    Yes, I too would love to see pictures of a road-registered & street-legal Porsche 917!!! I did not know that in 1972 you could walk into a dealership and order a USA version for road use.
     
  12. BLAMPEE

    BLAMPEE Man Card Status: Never Issued

    Jun 28, 2008
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    Sunny Heavenly Beautiful Arizona
    #87 BLAMPEE, Sep 9, 2009
    Looking at the comparison numbers I would say that Motor Trend needs better drivers...
     
  13. Sfumato

    Sfumato F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    10,194
    Llanfairpwllgwyngyll, Anglesey, Wales
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    Angus Podgorney
    #88 Sfumato, Sep 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I have this old photo, and the FOS pics done recently. R&T had Count Rossi's 030 in 72 or so, car had 911 sport muffler on it in one photo. AL tag 61-27737. Car was silver with M-R stripes, sport muffler later "fell off", replaced with venturi tips. Blue car here may be same car with repaint, it has different AL tag.

    Production, shared steel panels, but probably as liberal as interpretation as the MkIIB and MkI
    3/24/70, Talladega 200.447 #88 Chrysler Engineering Daytona.

    11/24/70 Talladega Bobby Isaac #71 K & K Insurance Dodge Charger Daytona 201.104 MPH, breaking the record set by the #88 Chrysler Engineering Daytona just eight months earlier.
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  14. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

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    #89 Bill S, Sep 9, 2009
    Ha! I was hoping someone would find that. Thanks! I remember that beast breaking 200.
     
  15. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #90 joe sackey, Sep 9, 2009
     
  16. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

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    #91 Bill S, Sep 9, 2009
    Yes, I suppose they don't want to break anything... except the Scuderia.
     
  17. Sfumato

    Sfumato F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
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    Llanfairpwllgwyngyll, Anglesey, Wales
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    #92 Sfumato, Sep 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Probably, 61 was same county. Here is original config and plate. Did not have Martini stripes then.
    I probably have a rear shot amidst the gigs.
    No the Dodges were US production cars.
    917.030 was mentioned in reference to the Gt40's.
    Bill, there's another one I haven't found pics of :)
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  18. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #93 joe sackey, Sep 9, 2009
    Bill I just realized that Car & Driver/Don Sherman stated in the December 1975 issue that a Countach LP400 with an engine tuned by Gian Paolo Dallara to 60 -70 bhp more than standard was clocked at 202 mph. This was the same test car they used for that issue, 1120056, a car built for a VIP client called Albert Silvera who always had special Lamborghinis built for him. No way to verify this I'm afraid.
     
  19. Sfumato

    Sfumato F1 World Champ

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    #94 Sfumato, Sep 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    OK, again, production is at least closer than Nascrap of today, things had real steel panels, production based. Bill Elliott. 212.809 mph Talladega '87.
    Mark D had 917-30 do 221.160 in '75
    Charger Daytonas were closer to production than Bird, but 4k# doing 200-212 is pretty damn impressive science with 1 4 barrel.
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  20. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #95 Napolis, Sep 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Another great photo.



    My Ford only goes 223MPH. The Count's 917 would leave it far behind.
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  21. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
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    #96 Bill S, Sep 9, 2009
    That would be stunning to see that car on the road in person. It would probably look really small, like the people inside!
     
  22. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    #97 Bill S, Sep 9, 2009
    BTW, that photo may be a fake unless you can validate the source (there are some artifacts around the vehicle's edges and the light and focus are not consistent with the scene).

    Watch out, it's sometimes hard to tell!
     
  23. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    #98 Bill S, Sep 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    BTW, I was able to confirm the accuracy of the race between the Enzo and CGT as shown below using independent GPS acceleration data received from TB993TT for his CGT at a runway event.

    So the simulated races should be pretty close to reality under 1,000' for US cars on reasonably flat surfaces... at least to within +/- 1 or 2 car lengths.

    Over 160 MPH, the CGT starts to slow down noticeably. For example, it takes about 12.2 seconds for a CGT to go from 170 to 190 MPH at 600'.
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  24. Sfumato

    Sfumato F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
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    Llanfairpwllgwyngyll, Anglesey, Wales
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    Angus Podgorney
    #99 Sfumato, Sep 9, 2009
    917 nutter board. I have original '75 R&T with sport muffler, space saver spare, AL plate as noted, and Martini stripes on rear 1/4 sail panels. Car is now over-restored, silver, no stripes, and tan full leather. Bleargh.
    Car has been stored unseen for 30 years until this year at Festival of Speed.
    030 was a one race wonder, that ended up as an ABS test hack at Weissach until recomissioned for road use. It was plated in Alabama, but it never lived in Alabama IIRC.
     
  25. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
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    #100 Bill S, Sep 10, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Nice find on 917-030!

    BTW, that 917-030 owner would likely embarass a Veyron owner. I've seen some numbers for the race 917/30:

    0-60 mph: 2.4 s !
    0-100 mph: 3.9 s !!
    0-200 mph: 10.9 s !!!


    "Astonishingly, despite the car's impracticality, at least two 917s were road-registered. One, for Count Rossi of the Martini concern, was painted silver and given the Alabama plate 61-27737 to circumvent red tape in Europe, and the second, for Joachim Grossmann, was painted white and given the German registration CW-K 917."
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