OFFICIAL B-24 Thread

Witchcraft and Ol' 927. Note the differences on the nose.

Ol' 927 almost lost a wingtip Saturday, there wasn't 2 inches of clearance as the tip went -over- the ladder on top of a firetruck.
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Rob the aircraft in the top picture is not a real B-24, it is an LB-30, a freighter version of the "B-Two Dozen". The most apparent difference is the lack of scoops on each side of the engine cowling and windows in the upper fuselage aft of the wing. Light weight windscreen too.
Thanks for the videos and photos.
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I was wondering if there would be a B24 thread, my favorite WWII aircraft!

Mr. Parks is correct, Collings has the only real, still- flying B24 left in the world. Pretty sad considering it was the most produced aircraft of all time.

Here is a short video I shot when "Witchcraft" came to San Diego earlier this year.

B24 in flight cockpit view
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H17aV19vtgk

Here are a few shots of my grandfther's plane "Nite and Day"
My grandfather flew in the 801st bomb group known as the "Carpetbaggers"
They were part of the O.S.S., what would become the CIA. They flew B17's and B24's that were painted black on unescorted night missions to drop propoganda on enemy positions and towns that were in the way of hte oncoming US Army.

First shot is his aircrew, He is kneeling on the right side. The other shots are different aircrews when it was named "Midnight Mistress" and "Problem Child". All 3 air crews kept the same nose art, "A bit of Lace" by Milton Caniff.

If you can make it out to an event that Collings is at and have $425 TAKE THE RIDE!!.

But anyways onto the pics.....
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And here are a few shots I took about 1.5 years ago when CF had a B24,B17, and B25 in San Diego......
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It is just a variation, like the pb4y used by the navy for subhunting and patrol bombing. They have just converted it "back" to a "B24"......

 

Yes, as far as I know, there is only Collings Foundation B-24 , it appears to be a " J "or an " H ". The bomb aimer's window configuration changed from one company to another that built them. I believe that the " 927" was called "Diamond Lil" in the past. That airplane is probably 10,000 pounds lighter than a combat ready B-24

 

Collings' model is a 'J', IIRC was built in San Diego by Consolodated Aircraft.

 

The PB4Y was developed from the B-24 K, I believe that I remember. We had a B-24K at Keesler Field when I was there and it sported the same high single fin that the Privateer had. It also had remotely controlled turrets built by Emerson, I think. I apologize for my memory being a bit fuzzy. Sixty four years has a way of clouding things a bit but I remember standing and looking for a long time at that airplane and getting a bit surprised that they would change the old B-24. The PB4Y was an outgrowth of the original B-24 and it wasn't a very good airplane aerodynamically. Neither was the standard B-24. The forward fuselage was longer than the the tail arm and yaw stability was a serious problem, thus the huge vertical tail. The standard B-24 was deficient in directional control to start with and in an engine out situation it took a couple of strong legs to keep it aimed. Ladden ( spl) , the designer looked at the original B-24 and decide that the nose would look better if it was longer, so he added 6 feet to it. Then when the turret was added some more nose length was put on it it until the directional stability was seriously compromised. The airplane ended up as an aerodynamic nightmare and was a real bear to fly. BUT, it was cheaper and quicker to build than the B-17 and almost 20,000 were produced. Called the box that the B-17 came in and the " Whistling ****House" it served in every theater during the war and acquitted itself with honor. But, if one thing went wrong there seemed to be a chain reaction and things got busy. It was declared surplus in 1944, a year before the war ended. It couldn't fly as high as the B-17 and didn't take punishment.
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This and the B29 that was pressurized brought the B24 to an end. My father took his dad (my grand father pictured above) out for a flight at a Collings Foundation event in Atlanta. It was the first time my grand father flew in a B24 since he parked his in a field in CT after flying home from England in 1945.

---Note the guy sticking out of the top of Old 927, He is directing the pilot for ground taxing, because of the added nose length, the pilot cannot see anything.

 

Yes, and he was supposed to tap the shoulder of the pilot with his feet to turn left or right. God Bless your grandfather. Mine fought at the Battle of Gettysburgh and that is something that I feel everyday and I imagine that your father feels the same.
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The recent issue of the Air Classics magazine has an article about the B-24 extolling its virtues. It could fly farther with more of a load than the B-17. It was faster. It also could light off like a 4th of July firework when hit in the wrong place. My first experience with it was on the ramp in the summer and detecting the strong odor of leaking fuel when I approached it. Entry was through the bombay which was open at the time. My position was at the starboard waist window. My instructions were to watch for smoke coming from number three or number four. Take off was made with the bombays open to chase out any fuel vapors because static electricity could start jumping around after the static ground wire left the runway. Six hours later we made the approach at Langley at 130 MPH. The radar sweep ( in place of the ball turret) was retracted. The tires contacted the runway and spun up in a cloud of smoke, increasing their diameter by six inches and jerking the oleo strut back by what seemed to be a foot. Hanging on to the gun I kept myself from being thrown forward from the deceleration of the application of brakes. When winter came it was all the same but freezing my butt off.
The fuel system was a puzzlement with tubing and old fashion brass shut off valves all over the place over the center section. Behind the pilot was a manometer board with GLASS tubes. They always leaked but they were necessary to measure fuel in all the tanks when all the magic was exercised in switching fuel with all the valves. Southwind gas heaters were located on the flight deck and that was the only place to get warm. If you had to stay in the waist , you were out of luck.
Looking back at the airplanes that the flight crews had to fight with in WW2 one must place great emphasis on the courage and commitment of those who did it.

 

I remembered a few things that surprised me about the first flight in a B-24. I was a bit unnerved when I saw the fuselage skin buckling and working when we were airborne. The vertical fins were bouncing around like they weren't attached to anything and the wings BENT UP in flight!. The B-17 was stiff as an ironing board and nothing wiggled or moved and you knew that you were in a reliably strong vehicle. Both, however, blew ice cold air all over everybody in the waist positions and the noise beat you to death along with the wind. Going forward through the bombay in a B-24 if you stomped on the bomb doors sometimes they would open. So you didn't stomp on them. If you had a pilot who liked to pull jokes on the new guy he would push forward when you were in the there and leave you floating in space and grabbing for the bomb racks. At the front end of the bombay there was a well from which you could climb up into the flight deck or simply go forward into the nose, crawling around the nose wheel cover to the bomb aimer's position and the nose gun turret. Still noisy up there.

 

The B-24 always reminds me of Ernie Gann's great books about flying the C-87, the cargo version of the B-24 (with less power, admittedly).

 

I worked on and off with Ernie Gann over a period of four years and chatted with him about different airplanes and our experiences. He loved the C-54 (DC-4), C-47 (DC-3), but despised the B-24 (C-87). It was not a nice airplane to fly with a full load even with the vaunted Davis wing...that quit flying at 24-25,000 feet. Directional control was marginal and almost non-existent with one or two engines out on one side. My late friend, Lew Morse, said that it took two strong legs on the rudder pedals to keep it straight. He flew for the 15th AF in Italy and even after having 4 airplanes shot out from under him he still swore by the B-24 and as he said, "Swore at it as much.." He flew " Patches" while in the 726th BS, 451st BG. He had some hairy stories about flying out of Italy. In a strange incident , I met the crew member who shot the famous pictures of " Extra Joker" being shot up and in flames while I was at Langley. When I mentioned Leo Stoutsenberger's name to Lew he almost fell over because Leo was in his crew.
Serendipity.
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I want to thank you Bob for this post. And for every one of the preceding 910 posts you have gifted us with. I haven't read every one of them, yet, but I fully intend to try.

Les

 

About 10 years ago, I was sailing on San Francisco Bay when we heard a low rumble on the horizon. A B-24 (maybe this?) with a Corsair and a Mustang (or P40) on his wings flew directly at and over us, maybe 200-250 feet off the deck.

Un-be-lievable. The gut-shaking roar was unreal.

They circled around the city and came back over again a few minutes later, returning to the East Bay. I'll never forget it.

 

I'm surprised and pleased that whatever I have passed on has interested anyone. I am just dredging up stuff that I was involved with over the years. I like telling stories about things in which I was interested or interesting things that I have done. Thank you for your comments . I don't know about the gift stuff. I have a feeling that everyone should record that which they have done in their life so that their survivors have a record not only of their predecessors but of the style of life at the time. I'm lucky to have a written record of my grand father and his surviving three years of service in the Civil War including the battle of Gettysburg, many other battles, and Sherman's March To the Sea. I have written 150,000 words regarding my time here on earth and if it isn't published then my children and grand children will have a clear picture of who I was. So as long as I can post, I will relate whatever is appropriate. Thanks again.
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I have to continue the account of " Extra Joker" and Leo Stoutsenberger. He was an aerial gunner/photographer and Leo and I were award winners in the 1945 Army Arts Contest and I met him when we recieved the ribbons in the CO's office at Langley Field. His series of 11 X 14 photos of the demise of " Extra Joker " were unforgettable. He was in the formation of 726th BS B-24's returning from a raid on Markersburg. The pilot of " Extra Joker" asked Leo before the mission if he could shoot some portrait shots of his airplane after the mission. As Leo was filming the airplane it came under attack by a flight of FW-190's. As it was being shot up , Leo kept taking pictures and captured the death of his subject. The 11 X 14 prints of the sequence are sharp enough to see the fear in the pilot's eyes as he looked at the number one engine and wing as it erupted in flames. Leo kept filming as the airplane went down with three or four FW's still after it. When he looked out of the left waist window to check the other planes in his formation, they were gone too. Then to meet an old B-24 pilot at Boeing 19 years later in 1963 where we worked together and find out that he and Leo where in the same outfit and flew together at times was an amazing thing to us. Lew Morse and I became close friends until he passed on a few years back. His experiences in the 15th AF will have to be told at a later time. Nobody can ever realize what brave young men they were.
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There is a famous videoclip of a natural-metal B-24, lower than the camera plane, that suffers a massive explosion in the left wing just outboard of the root that causes the wing to fold up and the plane to drop from the formation. Since bombs are seen falling in the clip, was this plane a victim of flak or was it hit by a bomb dropped from an aircraft higher up?

 

Bob,

Thank you for joting all of this down. I have some of my family's history. I wish I had more.


Thank you for your service! I'm old enough to have talked with 1! WWI vet. Plenty of WWII guys.

When I was growing up in the '70's I had a neighbor that flew Jugs in Europe. I fail to remember his name, I belive that it was Ben. I need to ask my parents more about him.

Most of the Dad's in my neighborhood were born during WWII, but one fought in the pacific!

I remember being in Oly's garage listening to him and a few freinds talking about Okinawa, and how Oly had tossed out a "jap" gernade that had been tossed into their foxhole saving them.

Thank you once more!!!!!

 

I have seen that footage many times and I believe that I read that it was a direct flak hit. It appears to be an explosion rather than a bomb falling on it. The B-24 was one of the first examples of modern aircraft construction with the stressed skin and shear web design. The B-17 had an aluminum tube truss frame in the wing spars and ribs that were covered by a corrugated inner skin and smooth outer so it was a composite type of very strong but heavy structure. The B-24 had a single load path type of structure with skin supported by stringers. The ribs and spars were of shear web and stiffener design like most of everything else even today.
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Is this the video clip of the wing breaking you are referring to?
(about 36 seconds into it).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLNESDqoZS4

Looks like it might be a bomb from above. Hard to tell though.
Here is a frozen frame of the video with a bomb that appears to be coming down above the plane.
However, the explosion is upwards from the wing which would imply more of a flak hit.
.
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I remember seeing my first B-24 when I was much much younger, called the Strawberry B*t*h. I am originally from Dayton, Ohio, and the airplane was always on display for local airshows. Nothing like the B-52's on display, but a memory I will never forget. I remember trying to build a plastic model of the airplane, but at that puritanical time, finding a decal with those words was impossible.

I think that plane is still at the Air Force Museum in Dayton. Used to be free, and well worth a visit even if it is in Dayton.
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