Doing a major on a 308

It depends on your wrenching background & skills. Without knowing more of your current skill level, I don't think anyone would offer an opinion.

If all you've ever done is oil & coolant changes, then I'd think twice before tackling a major. I have some very good F* owner friends that I absolutely wouldn't encourage to do more than change oil & coolant w/o being there to coach them step by step.

Then there are others like me who've wrenched on cars & motorcycles all their life & would barely need a few tips.

I had no trouble doing my 1st major 7 years ago when Fchat was just getting started & there wasn't anything near the level of documentation & tips available that there are now. But then, My 1st car was a '53 plymouth that I had to install an engine in & get it running, I restored XK150 Jag, including rebuilding the engine back in '69, and have done most of my own car & motorcycle service since then.

 

Verell is right, depends on the level of how confident you are specially when doing the timing belt. You have to be at least 85% confident and the 15% that you're not confident, well that's what we're here for otherwise don't take a chance leave it to the expert. Just MO

 

Rick, I don't think you'll have any problem then. The only hard part is getting the AC compressor on the front bank out of the way, the rest should be straight forward.

 

If you've done the timing belts on a DOHC engine before, you'll find things fairly similar.

This procedure will help give you a pretty good idea what's required:

http://www.camerafilters.com/ec/timing.htm

It's part of the Ferrari service info at this site:
http://www.camerafilters.com/ec/

You'll find workshop & parts manuals at this site:

Steve Jenkens Private Ferrari Document Collection
http://ferrari.jenkins.org/books/

 

Make sure you are using a good sealant when replacing the valve cover gaskets. You don't want those leaking. Will you be adjusting the valves as well? If it has not been done for more than 3 or so years I would recommend you at least check them while the covers are off.

 

Are we talking HONDA BOND, or what??? - I could use a spot of advice on the "good stuff".

thanks,
chris

 

What's the Trick getting that Compressor off I'm at that point now. I read pull the studs and others you don't need too? I noticed there's two nuts located on the inside of the bracket that are blind which hold the bracket to the cam cover. Can these be removed with the A/C still in position? Feels like there's a reinforcement flange about there also.

 

Hondabond is great stuff. Use that on both sides of the gasket sparingly, and a dab of high heat RTV in the corners where the covers meet the cam seals. Make sure to not get any RTV on the cam seals themselves or they will slip out on reinstallation of the cover. HOndabond is fine on the cam seals though.


Regarding the a/c compressor removal. THe only studs that need to be removed are the bottom studs (on the belt cover that hold the bottom bracket which hold the compressor on the bottom). None of the studs for the bracket holding the compressor on top need to be removed until the compressor is actually off. The 3 big nuts that hold the compressor from the top part of the bracket which are directly attached to studs on the compressor need to be removed so the compressor can slide down. You must have the studs removed on the bottom or it will not slide down. Once that is done, the compressor can be removed with the water pump still in place. The water pump pulley is in the way, but with some maneuvering, it will come out.

 

IIRC, on my '78 308 I had to get the compressor out of the way to get to the bolts holding the bracket to the cover. I thought there were 3 bolts in there, but you could be right with 2. To remove the compressor, first take off the tensioner/idler, the bottom bracket and back the studs out of the block. Then undo the top bolts, being careful not to lose the spacers and keeping track where they go. Once the bolts are out, you should be able to drop the compressor down. I had to remove the breather hoses on top of the gas tank along with the breather canister in order to swing the AC hoses over the top of the tank. You'll want to replace those anyway, so might as well remove them. Once the AC compressor is out of the way, you can get to the bracket with a wrench and remove the bolts.

Hope that helps.

 

Are this the same for the 84/85 QV?

 

I believe it is the same procedure, but not 100% sure.

 

Thanks J.S.

Is the snapon stud puller still the tool of choice? and what size is it?

chris

 

I believe the nut is 17mm, but for the life of me I cannot recall the stud size. Sorry

 

There is currently a thread about a fellow who had a major service done at a Ferrari dealership three months ago on a 328 and came home to oil all over the floor from cam seals that were not replaced. We dont have all the details yet, but it appears the dealer may have only flung on some belts and bearings without ever removing the cam covers, but still charged for a full service. Its total BS, but thats the world we live in.

IMHO, any DIY'er who documents thier work and can back it up with parts purchase reciepts, and who services everything leaving nothing to question, has done as good or better job than anyone else could do. If the work you pay for is questionable, or sloughed off, all the reciepts and invoices in the world arent going to make that car any better, and in fact could make it a time bomb as this fellows 328 became. Is a dealer invoice noting an oil change prima facie proof it was done? Why would a owners conviction he performed a full engine service carry any less weight? Point being, I would in fact take an owners word the work was performed by him, if he is convincing, over some elusive stack of reciepts from dealer or independent shop "X".

As far as its complexity, spend some time reading until you understand what your doing. Spend some time studying camshaft valve timing. If you have the interest, go to a scrap yard or junk yard and buy a DOHC core engine made of aluminum and wrench on it for a couple hours. Take it apart. Twist off bolts in it. Turn it over and see the relationship of valves to piston movement. Seriously, its really not rocket science. The honest truth is that you could buy a decent shop hoist, a nice large tool box, a shop type air compressor, and a chit load of tools for what just about anyone would charge you for one single full service. How bad could you really F up your car to outspend that? Answer: if you happened to rotate the engine by hand with the cams out of time, its possible (although you would be turning against some major torque) to bend the valves. If thats all you did, add as much as $1500 for your blunder. Thats about the worst possible scenario I could forsee a noob doing to thier Ferrari, and I dont believe its ever happened.

 

Hi, I'm just wondering exactly how does one get those top two bolts off the AC compressor bracket. I can't see a way to get at them and apply any amount of torque. I also can't imagine how one would reverse this process and reinstall the heavy compressor up in the wheel well and get these bolts started again. Any tips greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
DT

 

Do you have the engine cover off?

 

I did mine about 3 weekends ago.

The studs coming off the compressor run through brass sleeves in rubber grommets in the bracket. The grommets provide enough tension on the two upper bolts that when the nuts are removed, the compressor will hold there and not just drop out of the car. Probably because the compressor and bracket are mounted at about a 60 degree angle, and given the weight of the compressor, it wants to drop straight down. Also, I left the studs from the alternator bracket and lower a/c bracket in the cam cover, which also prevents the a/c compressor from dropping all the way out/down.

As for the torque needed to get those nuts off - got them from the top, with a 1/2" ratchet (driver). There was enough room to swing the driver, I don't recall it needing an inordinate amount of strength or leverage.
Phil

 

A gearwrench really comes in handy for those top A/C stud nuts as it's no thicker than the nut. Otherwise you can end up with the nut halfway off & the ratchet jammed up under the window drain lip(been there).

Be very careful when dropping the air compressor, there are 0 to 2 C shaped shim washers on some or all of the studs. They're on top of the compressor between it & the washers for the rubber grommets. Best to drop the compressor down about 1/4" and use a telescoping pickup magnet to pull them out. Be sure to note the number of shims on each stud. These shims ensure the compressor's pulley is parallel with the damper pulley that drives the belt. If not shimmed correctly, the belt will wear out very quickly. They also set the minimum belt tension before the A/C tensioner is used to tighten the belt.

 

Hi all,
Thanks for the great tips, you are all very helpful.
So I have my engine cover off, and gear wrenches really helped in getting those top three AC compressor bolts off. I'm watching all the spacers and where they need to live. Now is there a trick to this double-nutting of the long stud to get it out? It must have to be removed so I can drop the compressor off its top studs, no? I can't wiggle the compressor by this, no way. I'm tightening two nuts together on the stud pretty hard and then trying to back the stud out using the inner nut, yet the two nuts start to turn together and it just doesn't feel quite right.

Thanks again all, this car is quite a puzzle, but I think I'm getting there.
David T.

 

Now comes the fun part where you may need to apply heat to the studs You can use a torch to heat up the studs. If you use the torch, just be careful of the gas vapor or where you gas tank is. I also used a can of "Freeze It" to freeze the studs, whatever works for you.

Btw, 2 used to grade 10 metric nuts and also you need to have a feel where you're about to strip the threads on the nuts/studs so you can avoid damaging the threads, you may also break the studs, it's a lots pain if you do so be careful.