Maybe I'm getting old but this roller coaster is getting me a bit weary. There was a time when the soap opera happened between races and off the track. No more. If the racing isn't fun where is the redeeming grace?
Actually the racing is often fun. Not always. Gotta have reversed grid and sprinklers for that...and the occasional nut running in with a "the end is near" sign.
With the Stewards rearranging the outcomes and people crashing out deliberately do we even know what we're seeing when we watch?
I didn't mind the deliberate crash. To me that's just race strategy. Another form of team orders really. The rearranging of the results after the checkered flag drops is unacceptable. Absolutely no ifs/whens and buts. Just unacceptable. Period.
I have no issue with team orders or creative rule interpretation but I do draw the line at endangerment. F1 is not so safe that any crash can be assumed to be without potentially serious risk to the driver and others. If a piece of Jr.'s car had flown into the stands... ?
That evidence is actually out in the open: The FIA acknowledged to have known about the affair all along. Which makes their non reaction all the more stupifying. You really need to read more my friend. Oh c'mon, please. Let's be not more self righteous than the Pope. That was a very controlled crash and those nasty catch fences do the rest. I'm sure the spectators appreciated a bit of action right in front of them. I know I would have. In fact as a spectator I hate those catch fences. They ruin the shots. Here a few shots where I got lucky: 2002 Barrichello puts it into the wall right in front of me. And - how ironic is that - a shot from 1980 where Piquet Sr. lost control also nearby me. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
An 80mph crash in an F1 car isn't dangerous...as pointed out by Andreas the catch fences do the rest. An 80 mph crash could be dangerous 15 years ago, but not any more.
The really smart folk in F1 are the ones who play with a straight bat. If you treat people with respect, they will respect you for it...Mosley has Zip, Nada, Zilch none.. has anyone got any faith in the FIA anymore. But you know that Ian. you couldn't trust a word he says, there is enough evidence of that... Nelson Piquet Sr told FIA F1 Race Director Charlie Whiting about the race-fixing incident in Singapore, as long ago as at the Brazilian GP in late October 2008.. Max even cheated when he was a team manager.
You need to be able to separate the rule breaking from the crashing. The only rule broken was team orders, how teams chose to break that rule is not relevant. Whether Rubens slows to let Michael by or Piquet crashes, it is still just breaking the team orders rule (which is a stupid rule). You can be upset about how they did it but that should have no bearing on the punishment. What if Piquet had just parked the car, said the fuel pump broke, it is the same thing, just less expensive and more suspicious.
Since you are clearly the man with the inside information perhaps you'd like to share with us the 'evidence' the FIA had. And when I say evidence I mean evidence not, suspicion and allegation.
That isn't evidence Steve, that's someone who was not involved in the incident making an allegation, a very different thing. When Piquet Junior coughed that was different, he was a party to the race fixing and the FIA had something much more tangible to work with, and they did.
Think this a little further: What if they would cancel the race results and recalculate or tke out Renault from those or all points that season and recalculate. That means that you now open a new loophole as to when you are close and you have teams like Ferrari, Renault, Honda who supply more that one team with engines. The last race is down, there is a points difference that could be reversed for one team if they would claim that their 'sister team' cheated. The sister team gets canned and points reversed. Now you cheat in many other ways. Friends, the outcome sucks either way because the whole world now knows that Massa was the true WDC. It sucks for Massa since he can not claim the title, it sucks for Lewis who has a tainted title and it sucks for the sport, because one of the most prominent figures of F1 has fallen from grace is the most dispicable way. I understand cheating by bending the rules all the way and even a little over. I understand spying and gaining an advantage that way. I understand team orders and can even agree with them to a certain point. Where I do draw a line is when you purposely put the life of your driver on the line to gain a points advantage for another driver. That is reckless, and such a person has no business being in the pit lane or anywhere where he/she could make any decisions. That all said, since Alonso had to know about the 'strategy' when he was called in way too early and complied and not even called the pits back if they were nuts, I would not want to have Alonso driving for my team since he, just as Flavio, has endangered his teammates life for personal gain. I will not cheer for a team that has such a shady character driving for them.
If an allegation was made by the father of a driver, even more so a former F1 driver himself with a reputation of a Nelson Piquet sn, then at least they should have looked very closely at those allegations and investigated them. Called in the parties into a hearing as they did when Nelson jn. made them. I understand your point and agree with you to the respect of allegations are different that when a party steps up, but the allegation and where the allegation was coming from, a father who is basically telling the sporting director that hs son was part of the fixing, then there should be more action. In fact I would have not certified the race until the investigation was over.
No he would not have been. He would have been undeserving since the FIA already gifted him about a dozen points in Spa and Fuji. No it doesn't as he won the title despite the FIA's manipulations. Suit yourself. I can't wait until Alonso drives for Ferrari.
actually that is incorrect my friend. 1. there may be (and I have not read the rule book for F1) rules that prohibit the endangerment of your drivers. 2. there may (should) be rules that disallow drivers from crashing deliberately and/or parking their cars in dangeous locations on purpose (remember Monaco with Michael) 3. there are the actual laws of the land where the event is held. I would say that the endangerment laws come to play. Especially after Massa is in the hospital from debris that hit him, you simple have to assume that there is the possibility of danger. And the proof is, the course went full yellow to remove the debris. So there may be the rules broken by FIA and there are cetainly criminal laws broken and they may very likely come and haunt Flavio and Co. More than getting kicked out of the FIA for life, which they will and should.
I hear you Ian, it's the same old cross roads were are at, and I admire your stance on it. However, Piquet Junior I actually feel sorry for the guy, he was stuck in the middle, Flav was under pressure from Renault (Ghosn) to get results as they were threating to pull out of F1, Flav saw a way of using NPJ in the worst way possible, NPJ job was on the line at that time as well, NPJ must have told his dad, his dad was horrified told CW and from that we can safely assume would have told Max or at least checked the telemetry on NPJ car it was that easy. I can understand why they the FIA would want to keep this under wraps the bad press in F1 is reaching new heights and had it been sorted at the time Renault would have pulled out. the bit I'm unsure about is why Flav gave NPJ the boot when he did.
BTW, lets keep in mind that Mc.L. should not have gotten any points for the involvement in the spy scandal from the previous year. Technical advantages carry for 2 years. So technically Lewis should not have been competing for the WDC period. Nevertheless, I was very happy for him. Great talent and so much more to come. That would be the person I would like to see in red. Would that be considered red with black interior ??? (just kidding...)
He may dislike Massa but he is bang on IMO with FIA gifting Massa points. It would have been a hollow victory for Massa had he won really..
I will give you and Andreas that there were questionable calls that year. They were in both directions though. Massa got hit the next race for something stupid because they realized that they f'd up the race before. Further that has always been going on in F1. Unfortunately for F1, and here I will shout with you all for the 'retirement' of Mosley, with the budget cuts and trying desperately to get more competition into the sport, they have done some really dumb things from management trying hard to make it 'interesting'. It reminds me so much of NASCAR these days. One team does their homework and wins a few races, then they change the regulations so that team is in a disadvantage. It is fixing races by the organisation and it has taken a hold in F1. That, we need to remove again. Let the boys race and the teams do what they need to do (legally). If Ross Brawn had the foresight of some interpretations on regulations in design, well everybody else could have done the same. That is true engineering and taking advantage of what is out there legally. I hope they win the Championship this year. For Rubens, I think he deserves a nice parting gift.
According to you, I may also not be incorrect- 1. There may be rules? Maybe, where are they? Also, is there a rule that says the driver can not endanger himself? Since Piquet is the person who endangered anyone. If there is such a rule, it goes against the concept of auto racing, where by all drivers are putting themselves in danger. 2. Again, there may be a rule. Show me the rule that says they can't crash on purpose. It hasn't been mentioned in any of the threads I have read, but it may well exist. 3. I was not talking about breaking laws, I was talking about the rules and how people think that crashing the car is different then letting someone past in reference to team orders, it is not. If there are other rules broken, then people should complain about those, not try to make breaking the team orders rule into more then it is.
