Porsche 911: air-cooled vs. water-cooled... what's the difference?

I picked up on some comments in another thread about air-cooled variants of the 911 and was wondering why this is deemed preferable to water-cooled engines...

Are there any Porsche devotees out there with some wisdom to impart?

All the best,
Andrew.

 

It's really too broad based a request to answer succintly without writing a book, which I am not prepared to do. Others have however, and I suggest that you read some of them. The late Paul Frere is a great author to start with. Not being rude, just saying' it's too big a question.......

Can you narrow your it down somewhat based on personal circumstances ? Are you buying one ? Etc.....

 

Sorry, no I'm not thinking of buying a Porsche 911 - nowhere near being currently able to and the dream car I'm saving up for is a Ferrari 348. I was merely curious, as although I've spent a lot of time in a 944 and experienced a Boxster, I've never actually been in a 911 and don't know much about the distinctions between the generations (which seem to rouse the passions of 911 enthusiasts). Thanks for the author suggestion, I'll give Paul Frere a look.

Well, just to narrow it down a bit... I realise there are a great many differences between the different generations of Porsche 911, so ignoring all the other differences between the 993 (air-cooled) and 996 (water-cooled) variants, I was trying to ascertain if people actually cared about the technical means by which the engine was cooled, or whether alluding to this difference was simply an easier way to refer to the cars than citing their Porsche-designated model numbers.

Here's an answer I got in the other thread (I'd started this one to try not to take the other one too far off topic):

So judging by this, the air-cooled engine has an additional pleasing hums whereas the water-cooled ones do not?

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Because water/radiator dissipates heat better/more dependably and therefore you can run at higher revs/power/heat.

 

If water-cooled engines are more dependable, run at higher revs, and therefore produce more power, then that doesn't explain why so many people prefer the air-cooled engined models.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

The reason for air cooled love is for the iconic representation of how the 911 was built and it was the engine design of choice for 40 years. They sound different....not as efficient as those water cooled designs but the hand built cars in the air cooled era are something special.

 

Because true love is not logical, it just is.

For the record, I'd much rather have a 993 than a 997.

 

See this collection of usenet comments by former Porsche engineer Jobst Brandt. Puts the whole "aircooling" thing into perspective http://yarchive.net/car/porsche_vw_beetle.html

 

I can understand that.

Thanks very much for the link, I'll have a read.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

air cooled is only partly true. its also Oil cooled.

 

I like both, air cooled or water cooled. To me when Porsche went water cooled with the 911, it marked the change from good old 911's to the new almost GT-like 911's: From old school "hardcore" air cooled 911's (-996) to the "more userfriendly" water cooled 911's (996-)

I'm sure my answer confused you more but I don't know how to keep it more simple than that.

 

OK, here is the deal (according to James). I have owned the aircooled P911 cars since 1969, after a couple years in a Corvair Monza to prepare for the experience. Have had somewhere around 8 or 9 (depending on counting the one I traded for a 911SC, then an airplane, and then bought back both times) Currently my daily driver is a 993 Targa 6speed; it has had one top engine rebuild and is now at about 109,000 miles.

What we are talking about here is more fairly about 4 or 5 previous generations of the A/C 911 with many variations. Carbs, mechanical FI, electronic FI, short WB, "long" WB, targa vs. coupe, many changes that totally remake the driving experience. And that is just in what we would call the "early 911" - I make that 1960s up to the 1972 cars. BTW, you simply have not lived "old school" 911 unless you have had the Weber carbs along with a bone-stock non-electronic distributor with points and coil. In city, change plugs weekly...

Then came what many call the "notorious" 2.7 cars - many bad stories about them. I have owned 2, one rebought twice as I said, and I saw nothing wrong with them. This was about the last of the "old school" handling feel because after this came the big tires.

The 911SC variants, while great for their time (the horrible 80s), I did not care for. It was, I guess, the big tires and increased understeer (and tendency to flat spot on braking with little provacation).

The first one that I picked back up on after holding onto that last 1975 911S for years was my current 993: IMHO, the best 911 ever to be made.

In the interest of fairness, the family also has a 997 AeroKit coupe but my stepson drives it. I still prefer the traditional feel, the old style instruments, the smaller size, etc. about the 993.

In other words, it is not about the air-cooling per se; it is more about cars from a simpler and more driver-oriented time which we shall not see again.

 

Well, so much for harmony among porsche afficiondos...

The 997 incarnation is a better car in everyway than anything came before it.

45 years of learning from mistakes and technological advancements. They got this one very right indeed. Everything is better about this car.

The truly miraculous part is that, at it's heart, it's still, every bit, a 911.

 

Well, that seems a pretty good and succinct way to sum up opinion.

Very thoughtful and a great insight - particularly into the very early 911 models! Thanks very much.

Sorry about that, I was honestly just after improved understanding an not than trying to instigate discord.

The good thing about car enthusiasm is that there will always be variety in what people appreciate. The latest incarnation sounds a very well-sorted modern car.

If you're after a more visceral driving experience, I guess there are a lot of different vehicles where a certain enthusiast base will prefer earlier models.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

No problem! You just havent' learned not to talk to me yet

 

+1. Even based on my limited exposures to my P-cars. w/ smiles Jimmy

 

+993%

52k miles with original clutch, no motor work, ice cold a/c, and easy daily driver status (if I only could)...love my F cars, but the 993 is a educated gentlemens choice! as Mel Brooks would say..."we don't need no stinking water!"
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distillation:

The 997 is a better car.
The 993 is a better Porsche.

 

I use the 997tt as a DD, put tons of miles on it, wife takes it to costco (gasp), drives it in the snow, parks it outside. Its a fantastic car.

Never had a 993, so can't compare apples to apples. But the 997 is fantastic and very reliable car for what it does.

 

Well, if you are happy with a 997, and for sure my kid is, then you probably will not want to pay the huge premium in the market now for a 993. A good one now costs more than a Testarossa.

 

303, thats a nice rug. Persian? Only the best for the Pcar

 

It is not just about the engine:the water-cooled engines are far more efficient and produce more power but it's not just about the power - it is the whole package, it looks and is more compact (sports cars are becoming more bloated as time goes by) and the solidity of the build. Have you tried opening and closing a 911/964/993 door vs 996? It is totally different. The interior of the 993 is easily recognisable as the interior from a 911, not in a 996 or 997 you couldn't. It represents the end of a lineage and will never be built in that manner again. I'm not saying that 996, 997 are bad cars, far from it - I just personally prefer my 993. It has also doubled in price since I owned it from 2003 - what 996 or 997 would do that?

 

True that - engine takes approx. 10.5 litres (also includes the oil in reservoir as well).

 

The older porsches are works of art... the newer ones are just cars.

The 993 cars and those before it, are a unique experience...

It feels like you are in a metallic shell. The dash is very straighforward... the doors are thin but quality... the car just looks/feels light... Its your basic oversized go-kart.

You can look at the motor and understand what every part does... The motor is a work of art, a much as any ferrari 12 cylinder. Its unique. It sounds cool... it has character.

I remember getting into my 996. All I could think is, "My god this interior is cheap." Everything rattled. I loved the exterior shape with the aeropackage, though. Touching the turn signal stalk gave the impression it might fall off. I got rid of the car within a month...

The boxster s is similar. Its a neat car. But it doesn't make the right sounds. Doesn't have the "coming on the cam" feel. Looks great though, and will probably be in an art museum one day, right next to the Movado watch .

The 997 is pretty neat. Fast as stink, especially on the track (I was a passenger). But its not a supercar, the way the early 911's were. Its just a neat, fast, new car. I don't see kids plastering these on the wall, hoping they might one day buy one.

I thought about buying a 996 turbo. Was going to use it as a daily driver. I never looked at it in that passionate way, as if it were something to yearn after...

Fastforward to the dirt cheap 87 930 turbo in my garage now. I still go in randomly at night, just to look at it. I open up the hood, and marvel at the motor. I listen to it humm, as it warms up. I yearn to go DRIVE the thing. It feels light. It feels right. Stepping on the gas makes it come to life...

It starts as a whine, and a burble. It continues to get louder. Add in some hisses, and the air blowing through the air cooled fan. The pop-off valve purges...It crackles on deceleration... "WHooosh... Lets do that again!" runs through my mind...

While driving the 996, and boxster... the only thing going through my head was "Why didn't I take the BMW to work today? Its a nicer ride..."

 

Told you that you'd like the sound !!!!