whats my responsibility?

was at track day recently and had a spin. no damage and no one else involved. spun into grass so dust was everywhere. car did not stall so i looked for flagger who pointed black flag at me. i then drove the remaining 1/4 way around track to pit lane.

when i got there, i was criticized for leaking antifreeze on the track. they said i should have realized and waited in grass for tow. it took workers about 15 min to spread drying agent and track was clear again.

i was upset enough about spinning and then realizing a radiator leak ended my weekend that i didnt want to hear it from the officials and other drivers.

whats your opinions?

 

Your spin, your car, you are responsable.

It is ALWAYS the drivers responsibility to make the car is safe to proceed, checking gauges, looking in your mirrors to see if you are leaving a trail of fluids etc. thats part of racing.

The trail of antifreeze you left could have caused another car to spin resulting in damage to the car and or injury to the driver.

If you are unwilling to accept criticism from officials and drivers, the track is probably not the right place for you.

 

Yes but your comments are a bit harsh. I think his question is a fair one and DE driviers meetings rarely address every issue. You made an error but don't beat yourself up over it. If you are off track and get the black you did the right thing in general. The cornerworker may not have seen you leak fluid. Usually you will get a black and a wave in when safe to re-enter the track because while it may look safe to enter you may not be able to see the next car the CW sees closing at 120mph. So your mistake was not checking your mirrors. When you rejoin a track you enter OFFLINE and check your mirror and your gages as you bring up the RPM. If you see fluid you need to get off the Racing line and off the track in a safe place in view of a CW so he knows you are OK by giving the thumbs up and so that you can receive instructions. If you don't let them know you are OK they will send the ambulance and you are going to look really dumb and make a lot of people really mad. Stay in your car with safety equipment on until the tow truck comes. If you get stuck in an impact zone they will red flag your session and the truck will tow you. Fire is the only reason to get out of your car while on track. Don't try and wave over a CW because while you are his responsibility if stuck as his corner he has to watch for everyone else driving to his corner too. He is not going to come to you unless the session is red flagged. If you have hypothetical questions on proceedure ask them of the CW's, starter, or stewarts. They are always willing to answer and they would rather you ask a dumb question than make a dumb mistake that could injure another driver. Finally, everyone makes mistakes. If you knew how to do everything perfectly Ferrari would have hired you instead of Fernando.

 

don't sweat it.

if you had waited and been towed you probably still would have dropped antifreeze on track ...

if they REALLY cared they would have red flagged you. it's their f'in job to clean up the track and stuff. they get paid the same no matter how long the track is hot.

 

My answer was not harsh, it was exactly on point. Your answer certainly provides the details that the race officials and drivers probably wanted to tell him.

He asked if he was responsible, he was, but that is not the issue, if you push your car you will eventually spin, no big deal, the car leaked, well that is a part of being out there, just accept the consequences, which in this case was a talk with officials. The officials are there to protect him and the other drivers.

The issue for me was not the spin or the antifreeze, it was that he did not want to hear what the officials NEEDED to tell him, if I make a mistake on the track, I INSIST on getting feed back from an official or my driving coach. I understand I need to learn from my mistake.

When I am out on the track, I do not want to be out there with someone unwilling to listen to officials.

 

You need a thick skin to do this.

As I believe my hero Bruce MacInnes once said, "if you think you're going to get in a fight in the pits, leave your helmet on when you get out of the car."

 

You could have done X. You could have done Y. Everyone's a critic. And, everyone's got 20/20 hindsight. The other drivers and track workers were annoyed because you ruined a session and caused them work. They just *****ed about it. No biggie. No one likes to be the cause, and I'm sure you can put yourself in their shoes. But, the reality is it only cost a few minutes. Don't blow it out of proportion.

CW

 

Funny, I thought that this is what nomex was for?

Dale

 

It's pretty hard to know you are leaking unless someone (like the corner workers) tell you. I think in all the events I've been in you are told to come back on the track when it is safe and go straight to the pits if 4 wheels off. As someone else pointed out, you would have leaked with a tow as well so I don't see the foul here. Once leaks happen it's up to corner workers to warn drivers and management to clean it up ASAP.

Dave

 

When these things happen it is hard to stop take a deep breath and think things clearly. Experience helps. Each situation is different and common sense must prevail. Sure some fluid will dump but you need to minimize it. For drivers there is only one way to get back to pits and that is on track and off line. On the other hand, Tow trucks will come get you and drag you back sometimes on track but often through an infield or sometimes against traffic flow on track as they see fit. That right there can often times minimize clean-up and session downtime. Incidents happen we drivers just need to try and not make them worse.

 

thanks for all your opinions. my issue was not that i was criticized for ruining track, it was that there was no way for me to know car was leaking- rear engine, dust all around, gauges normal, never stalled, etc. black flag pointed at me means take it to the pits which i did. im over it now.

 

Well played, Dale.

 

To add "insult to injury", you'll probably get a bill for the kitty litter they used - at $25 per bag. As already pointed out, its not the track time lost, its the real danger when someone drops fluid on the track. Imagine coming around a bend at full grip and hitting a sheet of ice. That's what antifreeze does to the track. So while you may be upset about a radiator, the guy behind you might very well end up being upset about his totaled out car. Think about it.

 

you are not obligated to take ANY responsibility for your own actions....just pick someone else to blame it on and stick to your story and you will be fine.

 

obviously, what you say is true and causing a danger to others is a huge big deal. my point remains however, there was no way for me to realize car was leaking.

 

Roadracers are too polite. Rally drivers drag out BIG freakin rocks and logs into the raceline for the following cars. Life would be boring without a little drama.

Live & learn. Forget about it.

 

"Live & learn. Forget about it."


Great advice.

 

If the car is drivable get back on it ! Daylights burning !
If you know you were leaking fluids; different story. Park it in a safe spot and have it towed after the race.

Last DE I witnessed two cars spun off backwards immediatly after a Boxter blew a hose and stayed on the line. Parked on the line down the track. Idjit.

 

Agreed.

 

I think you did what you could in that situation, and yes... sometimes we think drivers have eyes in the back of thier heads & bumpers to magically see out the back of thier own cars. In our event, I tech cars and work w/ race control and 'consult drivers' when needed but I also drive-- so I see both sides of this one. FYI- we consult everyone coming in if they've been flagged to let them know exactly why they've been flagged wheather they know why or not.

There's no way to tell when sitting in the grass if your leaking or not, BUT you need to use your mirrors best you can to see if you are leaving a trail while staying off-line. The corner workers are also watching you; and like at Road America & some other tracks, a camera is zoomed in on you and watching for debris & fluids as well and communicating with corner workers to flag you. If you do see your leaving a trail or they motion you to, pull off the track again making sure NOT to cross over to other side leaving a slick for other cars. Safety will respond to you and get you to the paddock and keep the track as dry as possible.
At our event when a car goes '4-off', we black flag them in (even a clean spin) and they have to get re-tech'ed to make sure all's good.
cmparrenzo's response may seem harsh, but its the reality of whats going on out there even though sometimes its a 'damned if you do-damned if you don't' scenario.

A session under a local yellow due to a fladbed or tow to get a disabled or questionable car is MUCH more preferred than a red flagged session do to wreckage.

 

I prefer to volunteer as once you're getting paid it's a whole new world. I don't consider it a job, let alone an f'in job, to clean up a track. It's just another part of flagging - just like putting out a fire or appying a c-spine hold until the ambulance arrives.

95spiderman: cars leak, fact of life. If someone's making it a personal issue they're being a touch unrealistic. A 15min cleanup isn't squat.

 

That's how I see it too. Tell us you drove back off line.

 

no, unfortunately i drove back around on line bc i had no way of knowing there was a leak, which is the whole point of my thread

 

I think I'd want to know why it spun. If it came out of nowhere, when you'd gone that same speed earlier, I'd have gotten out of the car to see why.

The corner worker may have a little responsibility here also, but then again, they didn't know why you spun, just that you did.

Last but not least, when you got the black flag, if you indeed were to return to the pits, it was wrong to drive on the racing line, for many reasons, all of which involve safety.

Art

 

yeah, i didn't mean any offense by my comment! just that track workers shouldn't get upset at the driver if they were in a position to stop them and didn't do so.

now, the last time i was at infineon, at the end of the day some moron drove into the pit entrance lane and onto the track in the wrong direction. ie, they drove OUT of the pit ENTRANCE and onto the track, which if you know infineon goes onto a VERY dangerous part of the track. they threw the red flag immediately. now that guy deserved a talking-to.