458 Italia no more Manual

At the risk of having everyone jump down my throat, I will not buy another car (that I don't intend to track) that doesn't have a manual tranny period. I drove my CS on the street for three years and while it is everything that one can imagine there was always something lacking not have that clutch pedal to play with.

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/19/video-things-to-do-in-your-ferrari-f430-challenge-racer-when-yo/

thoguht this was kind of funny (and fake)

 

Love to do that in track someday

 

I wondered about this. My Local dealer called me about putting a deposit on the new Ferrari and replace my F430. I asked about the 6 speed manual he groaned and has not called back. SO now I know. My 360 modena had a 6 speed which I prefer and my F430 does not. I do not like paddle shifters.

No disrespect meant but I do not agree with the statement above. Although I donot like pad shifters they are faster than the manuals. Anynone who feels diferently should drive a Scud. I DO AGREE SOMETIMES IT CAN BE VERY CLOSE.

Lee

 

HERE IT IS: Automatic steering option for you paddle shifters, lol. The first test cars equipped with this technology will roll on test tracks (Europe) as early as 2011.
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So what's new?

 

+1 .......... I don't know why 'some' F1 guys have gotten in to a huff ........... they are getting exactly what they want in the great looking F1 458 .......... its the manual shift guys getting the very short end of the proverbial 'stick' ..........

edit: 'some' changes

 

Eh? Which of the F1 guys are in a huff?

 

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but there are also
no stalks of any kind around the steering wheel. All
turn signals,etc are done with buttons and such.
I have finally come around to the paddles,having tried
a friends car. It's still more involving and fun with the
manual,but.....I just saw a spot on the morning news
where a new lexus hybrid owners manual is about 3" thick.
Doesn't fit in the glove compartment. It's the future,it's
progress,all you can do is try and embrace it,who knows
you may like it.

 

IMO there are some things that should never be superseded by 'technology' ........... analog watch hands, automatic movements, leather, oil paintings, solid wood furniture, wine, caviar, lobsters to name a few ............. also ...... I know they have only changed superficially but real live women with nice big 'natural' boobs the way they have been for thousands of years and still awesome to this day ...................

Oh and on cars analog gauges, hand crafted exterior, awesome exhaust sound, leather interior and 'manual' controls ......... I would dread the day when a sports car is 'all electric' and controlled by a 'thinking cap' .............. again ...... IMO ...........

 

Can someone please explain the "It's Faster" paddle shifter argument to me? Who cares if paddles shift incrementally faster than a conventional manual? In what environment do these hundredths of seconds matter?

They certainly don't matter on the street. Most people mention the track, but who's being competitively timed on the track in their road car? Is anyone here really involved in any sort of timed or wheel-to-wheel competition with their F430 or 599GTB that they would be at a disadvantage in a properly-driven manual transmission car?

Most performance driving events ('track days') are non-timed, non-competitive events as a rule. Timing laps on the Nurburgring isn't even allowed by management (though people still do it).

So let's assume that somehow you do actually have access to a private track and you do enjoy timing your laps and working on improving your times and 'competing against yourself.' You can still do this with a manual car. Even if your times around the track were a second slower than a paddle-shift car, the actual time wouldn't matter -- you're just competing against yourself and you're previous time. You're not duking it out for a lap record. I doubt many owners are holding private wheel-to-wheel races and need every millisecond they can get.

So what's up with that argument??

Rant over.

 

So you're assuming it's just about "It's faster".?

 

Assuming? I'm saying that argument seems to be a common one, without further reasoning. There are plenty of examples in this very thread.

I've used paddle-shift single- and dual-clutch transmissions extensively (both on Ferraris and other vehicles) and find they always leave me wanting, in terms of both involvement and driveability.

 

Look, I had an '84 308. Loved the car to death. As soon as I can I
want a 328. I also love all the mechanical sounds and gauges,but lets
be honest,new cars are great in that they are trouble free for the most
part.Build quality is also much improved in new Ferraris. Take F1,
how many drivers from the fifties and sixties would kill to have driven
the current F1 cars if only for their reliability and safety? Now were those
cars a blast to drive? Sure,but time moves on.Solution? Buy two,one new,
one old school!

 

You are right, the argument comes up often. Even on a track, the benefit is only upshifting. Downshifting under braking is the same, stick or paddles. Besides, what percentage of Ferraris ever see a track? I would say very, very few and spiders are not even allowed in many track events, so why do they need paddles? I think paddle buyers get them for one of three reasons:

1. they wanna be like "Mike"
2. they want the latest and greatest
3. they can't drive a stick worth a crap anyway.

Paddles were about 12K extra in 430's. Buyers could have gotten manuals and used the savings to go to 3-4 driving schools which definitely would result in much quicker times.

Dave

 

I vote door #3.

 

1. No. I find F1 racing boring.
2. No. While I do see some logic in having the most modern Ferrari with the most modern technologies it's not for the sake of it. I wear a Breitling, essentially old technology.
3. No. I can heel, toe and stick with the best of them and at the very least would probably give most of you a hard time on a track in a stick shift. I just like changing gears with paddles more than with a stick.

And as for it being faster. I don't care. I don't care about lap times. I don't care about tenths of a second.

It's funny that someone earlier accused the F1 guys of being in a huff when it's really the stick guys who are in a twist about this issue (and understandably so).

 

.................. drive and wear what ever you want ............ no one expects lock-step agreement .......... the newer f-cars are getting too comfy these days anyway ................ thankfully there are plenty of other great sports cars that have a manual shifter .................. the mclaren f1 and F40 are 'manual' in every sense ............ they are technologically advanced where it matters .......... no gimmicks .......

.

 

I absolutely agree with you that it sucks that Ferrari are phasing out the stick. Of all manufacturers they should be the ones offering stick seeing how iconic the Ferrari stick is. And I fully understand that the stick guys are feeling sore over this. But I do think there's a lot of 'real driver' BS coming from the stick guys.

 

grow up girls ....

 

Reminds me of when the Thunderbirds were running the USAF and appearances were everything. V-necked t-shirts were mandated, weird uniforms, etc. Someone wrote a caustic, but very funny, paper at the Pentagon called the Brown Paper, extolling the "manly men" future of the USAF.

So for all of you who denigrate F1 shifters and double clutch transmissions and their owners' abilities to drive, make sure you only wear V-necked t-shirts so your chest hair shows and you can be the only "manly men" driving Ferraris.

For those of us who have been driving Ferraris for 30+ years, some of the comments have been really hilarious. Reminds me of bantam roosters strutting. A simple "I prefer manual shifting transmissions and am disappointed Ferrari will not offer one" would have been adequate.

Chad- I think ordering a manual 599 is a splendid idea. Know you will enjoy it. At full chat, you will really be rowing, but it should be huge fun. Plus the bloody thing is so fast, a few milliseconds lost here or there while shifting will not make much difference. The LEDs on the steering wheel will be a great help. Plus this is an opportunity to own what may be the last manual shifter car Ferrari builds, since there are no more manual 430s or 612s.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Ok many are swearing by the flappies, others are saying manual or no go.

Let me put in what I think the pros and cons are.

Flappies
Pros:
-Faster shifts
-Smoother rev matching
-In other words ideal for the guy whos after some serious track runs.
-Usually longer life
Cons:
-Detracts from driving experience
-Starts to mask a drivers skill
Verdict:
Idiot proof for the most part, and a useful tool in the hands of a proffesional


Good ol manual box
Pros:
-Better experience
-More challenging
-Takes more skill to manage
Cons:
-New gen semi-auto & dual clutch boxes are much faster
-Potentially shorter life
Verdict:
Takes some skill to wring the best out of it, but no F1 box will give the satisfaction of that perfect rev match downshift that you can occasionally do, outdated but by far the most rewarding.

Given two f430s one manual one f1 and told to choose I would be hard pressed to pick one of them. I have to look at the scenario of its use. Is it going to be mainly going to the tracks in the weekend? F1 for me thank you. Or is it beautiful mountain roads or other back roads to rip down. Then I want the three pedals thank you.

Flappies to me are cold cut track bred track weapons, they are by far superior by sheer facts, but once you factor in emotion theres nothing there so far as I am concerned.

Cars like the F50, enzo the flagships I understand have to have the latest and greatest in the companies tech bed. So only flappies on them I understand.

Hardcore variants geared more towards track days meaning lap times are important. So in cars like the challenge stradale, or the scuderia, all right, I will give it that as well.

But a bread and butter 458? Cmon not all are just for track numbers, have something for just the mountain roads. No F1 box can make me feel that good inside as banging a perfect rev match downshift because all I have to do is pull the left paddle behind the wheel behind me.

I am going to quote Richard hammond when he drove the mclaren F1 before the veyron vs f1 race. "The F1 couldnt be more different than the veyron, where as the veyron was built purely as the cutting edge of technology, the F1 was built to deliver the purest driving experience, the gearchange lever, its got a really nice mechanical feeling like that of a well oiled bolt action rifle..." and that just bangs it in there. Just the solid feel of a well built manual box with a decently weighed and communicative clutch can't be matched by any F1 box no matter how short of a second it can shift up and down perfectly.

To me the choices are quite different, both have merits, but I cant see anything but financial reasons to only manufacture just one type of gearbox, for the bread and butter supercar of the company.

To me its easy to choose.

The track day guy that wants to put down those perfect lap times... or my mom who is quite incapable of driving a manual and wants a car of this genre(that was not a jab at anyone who has a car with a F1 box)

The driving enthusiast, who just wants his/her car to deliver the purest and the most entertaining experience, its three pedals and a h pattern or up down sequential thanks very much.

Like I said the scuderia or any of these hardcore track day variants sure make those flappies only, but the standard should have an optional manual.

Regards,
Krish

 

I don't get this thread. So you want more power, carbon brakes, anti lock, anti slip, traction control, carbon everywhere, digital this, techno that, F1 tech on the road, and then wreck the whole gig by putting an early 20th Century invention (manual box) in charge of one of the most critical elements of the overall package? Doesn't make sense to me...

 

1: Theres never too much power, its usually not enough control over the power.
2: I dont want abs, mainly because I dont need it
3: Traction control will be in the mode where it say cst off on the dash
4: I like analog gauges, no get my speed in microwave numbers
5: Carbon brakes I do want

I dont know how to explain this to you, but by all factual standpoint it makes sense to have a f1 box. Longer life, easier to live with, faster, anybody can use it hard.

But in all its factual perfection, its just too robotic, too cold, you can't feel the gears distantly rumbling when you place your hands on the shifter, somehow it kills a bit of the character, you can't feel the solid clutch pushing your left foot back, that gorgeous slick slide of the shifter from 3rd to 2nd followed by a beautiful distant mechanical thud as the gear slips into its gate, its just a great feeling inside, I havent driven any F1 ferraris, but I have driven a dsg golf gti, a pdk carrera, and its just superior in any factual way, but I missed the rewarding sweetness of the manual. It scares you with its grinds when you screw up, and rewards you with one of the most uplifting sensations when you get it right.

All the other things you mentioned doesnt directly affect the driving experience too much, brake material is irrelevant, they more or less feel the same.

Traction control like I said before can be turned off.

ABS well health and safety goons will b***h if its not there, and not everyone can threshold brake so it needs to be there. Lock up is a scary thing when a 1000 foot drop awaits you if you enter the turn too hot, I can attest to that.

No one said cutting edge technology and driving experience can't go hand in hand. The r34 can attest to that.

Its an emotional thing. Personally I prefer manuals, but I understand the merits of an F1 box.

 

Krish- Any 70 year old lady in the same car with ABS and you without can outbrake you and your "threshold braking", especially on corner entry. Make it wet or icy and she can stop in 50-75% of the distance you can. Trust me, you do want ABS. F1 drivers would love it. You can watch them lock up the brakes in most races and partially flat-spot their tires. Makes more of a show without ABS and traction control, though, so both were banned from F1.

There has not been an analog gauge in a Ferrari for quite a while. The gauges may look analog because they are round, but they are electronic. Even the 308's speedometer was electronic. A sender sent an electronic signal to the speedometer. An analog gauge uses a spinning cable from a geartrain to measure speed and revolutions. You do not want to go back to that. The new 458 does not even have a separate speedometer. Speed is read on a digital panel to the right of the electronic tachometer gauge. You meant you like round gauges, I am sure.

Times and technology change.

Taz
Terry Phillips