What's the deal with Zonda's in the US?

well, i guess i'll just have to grease a few politicians and the lot of them at the DOT, customs... so i can actually drive my Cinque Roadster legally when i get her...

 

I have seen european cars on the roads in the us that were never intended for import. I was told that if the european owner brought the car into the US and did not ever sell the car there was no problem. It sounded fishy to me , but they were driving a one year old Alfa.

 

I took the photo below at a restaurant in Atlanta, Georgia in April 2008. I've seen the car twice since. It's an Alfa 147 on plates from Spain. I spoke to the owners and he didn't say much, but I don't think he understood that I knew what the car was, I was just wondering what the hell it was doing here. Oddly he wasn't some European guy here on some sort of diplomatic mission but instead a black guy with no accent whatsoever.
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It's not fishy at all. Perfectly legal. It's called temporary import. Go form HS-7 and read up on it. It can be any foreigner, not just Europeans.

 

maybe I am only doing more damage as well as beating a dead horse but Ill try one more time in the simplest most non-convoulted way (please don't take this as mocking you, I am being sincere)

I was just trying to inform people that just because a car has a license plate on it does not mean that the car is here legally.

i don't think my point can get any more concise than that.

Importing cars and people exploiting grey areas and finding ways to make things work is convoluted. The law in and of itself, as well as the spirit of the law is pretty concise.

 

My post from March 2006 about the next Pagani Model turned out not to be too wrong...
they actually used a "popular V12 engine from AMG", and "turboharged....

 

Is this car dead in the USA?

 

Why cant they be brought over through show and display?

 

I have tried to figure that out myself and never been able to get a real answer. They should certainly meet eligibility requirements now that the Zonda is no longer in production and one would imagine that the EPA work on the Mercedes Benz powerplant would not be impossible.

If anyone knows Dick Merritt from the DOT please ask him.

>8^)
ER

 

I seem to recall they were all set to get approval two years ago and then for some unknown reason they got the ax by the US DOT. Isn't it ridiculous that the Government would ban 20-30 cars that would't do more than a few thousand miles a year on US roads. Who thinks this crap up.

 

I was in Croatia two weeks ago and saw a range rover with California plates in it.

Go figure.

 

I thought you could bring any car under show and display as long as they were never sold in the US and were "historically significant". A Zonda would qualify. So why arent there Zonda brought over?

The new Pagani is still being homologated IIRC and dealers have been selected.

 

If you are talking about the Huayra, they petitioned for a waiver for FMVSS 208 as it pertains to Smart Airbags which would have allowed the sale of Huayras in the USA and it was denied back in 2011. The DOT said they would no longer issue such waivers for small volume manufacturers despite the financial hardship. That certainly delayed Pagani's ability to sell them in the USA but they said they would develop the car further to meet the US requirement - at an estimated cost to them of 4M Euros.

Supposedly they have reached that point now and will begin to sell cars here early next year. That said, some questions have been raised recently after one sharp-eyed viewer on another forum paid very close attention to this image of the Pagani data plate which was seen on the purported US-spec Huayra that was in Monterey in August. As it is difficult to read, essentially it suggests that the Huayra is exempt from the Smart Airbag requirement (something we know to be untrue) and the info shown related to various DOT standards appears to have been directly copied from a similar information label found on a Koenigsegg Agera. The wording is identical, including exemption codes that were issued direct to Koenigsegg and would therefore not apply to a vehicle from any other manufacturer.

So far, despite direct inquires to Pagani for clarification on the text seen on this plate there has been no response or explanation given for the inconsistencies raised. It's a little perplexing and will be interesting to see what that plate says on the first Huayra delivered in the USA when that occurs.

>8^)
ER
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The VIN , dates and specs are different, I would guess the US DOT told them what to print.

please explain the inconsistencies

 

Of course the VIN and those other details would be different - that's not the issue at all. The part that is identical, and should NOT be identical under any circumstance other than what appears to be fraud is part in the middle of the plate that begins with "Except for..." and ends with "No. Ex 06-10" - all of that applies to and is specific to the Koenigsegg Agera and would not apply to any vehicle manufactured by Pagani whatsoever.

>8^)
ER

 

Why? They are exemptions and I could see the government waiving the same ones on many cars of these types. I am not sure it is correct to think Koenigsegg or any car would have specific plates. I would guess that all cars fall into categories and both these cars fell into that same category. pretty simple

Thats the way regulations work.

 

Pausing to correct one thing I have written since we are well past the available editing timeframe - the exemption number Pagani have borrowed originally applied to the CCX that Koenigsegg certified for sale here, not the Agera which I mentioned above. Koenigsegg did apply for an extension of that exemption in April 2011 which may have covered some Agera chassis, or it may have required its own exemption number.

= = = = =

Now to get back to your assumptions - I am sorry, but you are incorrect and it is not as simple as you have assumed. Exemptions are issued on a manufacturer by manufacturer basis after extensive review of each application, not as a blanket, and with every application and approval each are issued unique codes for future reference.

You are right that Koenigsegg is not the only manufacturer to be issued an exemption for this. Borrowing some text from the original thread where this data plate issue was raised, which I'd link to if not for the URL filtering here...

He went on to add that Pagani could not be working with a exemption from the standards with EX 06-anything as they did not apply for any exemptions from the DOT until November 2007. Therefore had any been approved they would have been EX 07-##.

Exemption 06-10 on Pagani's and Koenigsegg's plate implies an exemption that was applied for in 2006 and was the 10th issued by the DOT. It was issued to Koenigsegg and only Koenigsegg. If you care to read the nitty-gritty on the application and findings of the DOT you can view them here:

Federal Register, Volume 72 Issue 67 (Monday, April 9, 2007)

The most relevant paragraphs are at the bottom and I'll include them:

Again - there can be no question that Pagani have simply copied the info that applies to Koenigsegg for their Huayra data plate. The question that is relevant and should matter though is why? This is the kind of stuff that if investigated could get a car seized for improper importation. Thankfully the car in question has moved on to Canada already, but still - why take the risk?

This car wasn't just a static display at some events either - Pagani were giving test rides/drives around Monterey throughout the weekend with it. Here it is passing me on 17 Mile drive on the Saturday afternoon.

>8^)
ER
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Saying it doesn't make it true, I could see this either way,so far there is no proof Pagani copied it. The tag may use the same text, but that doesn't mean they copied it.

 

I am all for following a law but why exactly are you going after Pagani and making it difficult for them to bring the Huayra to the US? If they took some liberties to sell some of their cars, so be it.......

 

You can't be that dense? It's right there word for word, number for number on their dataplate. That doesn't happen by chance...

I'm not trying to make it difficult for Pagani at all - I welcome their cars here. In question is why they have chosen to represent their product as having exemptions from Federal laws that they simply have not received. That data plate should say that the car conforms to all of these laws, because without the exemptions (which again, they were denied) they can not legally sell their product in the USA. Anyone who buys one with the representation that it meets the standards with certain exemptions could be subject to seizure of their vehicle if that is later investigated and discovered to be false.

Keep in mind this is the same company that recently ran their Top Gear Power Lap using a set of cut slick racing tires - then when caught, they later falsely claimed that the tires were "street legal" which was simply untrue. Pagani may make some very beautiful and powerful cars, but these recent actions have raised questions about their integrity.

>8^)
ER

 

You missed my point completely why do you think that "government text" is exclusive?

 

I haven't missed any point you have tried to make - I'm telling you that the facts of the situation don't support your assumptions.

That "government text" is exclusive because those exemption numbers claimed on the Pagani data plate were issued exclusively to Koenigsegg and no one else.

If Pagani had been approved for their own exemptions from those same FMVSS sections then yes, the text from Pagani would likely be quite similar, but the actual exemption numbers presented would be unique to them. This is not a difficult concept to grasp, I don't think??

Again with the Federal Register in case you want to bore yourself with the details:

Federal Register, Volume 76 Issue 151 (Friday, August 5, 2011)

And the relevant portion:

You can not import a vehicle to the USA and claim it is covered by exemptions from Federal Safety Standards when that is untrue. By doing so they are in violation of the law. Why they chose to do this on the car they displayed at the Quail and told prospective customers was now legal here is very questionable behavior. If you don't see it that way, fine.

>8^)
ER

 

Very interesting information, Erik! And to me, it's completely clear what you mean! Thanks for sharing this!

 

Greetings from the person who broke this story, in the thread that Erik refers to.

I was directed to this thread by a friend, so this is my first post here. In interest of playing by the rules I won't link to the original thread, but if you Google "Pagani is at it again" you will find it. Hopefully one finds it an interesting read.

Erik presents a good summary of the main points but I'd like to add that the text of the Huayra plate references an addtional exemption that was granted to Koenigsegg, for which Pagani has not ever applied.

Since I am not really known here, and as some may know I am a bit occupied these days, Erik you may proceed. I think the story needs some more exposure. I'm not sure what Pagani is up to but given their past history of craftiness I wouldn't rule anything out.

 

That was a long read, you have a god point. These Huayra's have been in design for a number of years and it reads like the feds did issue a waiver in past years, maybe this car was given a waiver prior to the current decision.

IMO the DOT law is so ridiculous, especially when we have old hot rods VW vans rolling around.