308 V12 conversion begins | Page 112 | FerrariChat

308 V12 conversion begins

Discussion in '308/328' started by mk e, Oct 9, 2007.

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  1. tknobby

    tknobby Rookie

    Mar 12, 2009
    49
    Looking excellent Mark. Those 1 3/4" pipes Are really big. Have you thought about this: using individual header flanges during the build so you can separate the pipes for welding instead of using vise grips? Just a thought.

    Tom...
     
  2. 308nut

    308nut Formula 3
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    Looking great Mark,


    Did you fix the upper frame rail on the left side at the shock mount, I remember it was cracked pretty bad.


    Wade
     
  3. ramosel

    ramosel Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2004
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    Cool... yeah, we've seen/used the flux when its just not feasible to purge - 5 inch V-bands on the end of a pipe - it works well. I just haven't seen anyone use the flux internally when a purge was possible.

    Its funny, but we deal with 3 very well known pros in the racing business. They all have the fancy, store bought, purge hardware on their header fab benches... its usually in a box covered with dust and crap. They all seem to prefer their home-made devices best... variations on racquetballs balls with aquarium valves and surgical tubing, wads of newspaper, stainless wool. Seems there is still some black magic at certain levels.

    This is a great time in your project. I have no intention of following in your footsteps, but I certainly read every word and scour every picture.

    thanks!
    Rick
     
  4. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    I did fix cracks in both upper frame rails at the shock mounts when I first got the car but I never posted pics of anything back in those days…….ahhh wait…I’m now remembering that this was your car I belive.
     
  5. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    I thought about separate flanges but any headers I’ve have tried to install that were made that way all had alignment problems fitting to the head. I figure I’ll build 4 separate 3 cyl headers the make them a slip fit/spring retain into the merge collectors and hope that gives me the movement I need for good alignment.
     
  6. hotrod406

    hotrod406 Formula Junior

    Sep 18, 2007
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    Any pics of the collectors yet? I actually have a little experience building headers so I'm watching this part of the project with particular interest. I can't wait for more progress!
     
  7. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    I may very well end up doing it all with a purge. I was thinking the flux would be really helpful during the tacking phase if nothing else. I put these tubes together being careful that I could get in and grind the back of the tacks clean, but it seems like it would be nice to just flux the joints and not think about grinding and tack order.
     
  8. hotrod406

    hotrod406 Formula Junior

    Sep 18, 2007
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    If your tacks do not have full penetration you won't get any "sugar" on the back. What is the thickness of the tubing?
     
  9. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    Only the pile of bits on the floor pic.

    There are going to be 6 collectors, four 3into1 and two 2into 1. I’m thinking I want to weld up this header and put the 3into1 on this header next. I need to make a 90 degree turn down and then a 90 degree going back and both of these bends are about where collectors need to be. I think it will be easiest to set the path length by getting one built then match the length on the second and that will tell me exactly where I want the header tubes to end up on the second header.

    The front headers will be a much bigger pain to work on, but the collect issue will be much less of an issue I think so my thought was it would be easier to match the front to the back than the other way around. This is why I started with the rear header, that and I’m way out of practice on headers so easier to make tubes seemed a good place to start too.
     
  10. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    18g, so .049".....it's pretty hard to not have the weld burn though to the inside. About 1/3 have been front only welds with no sugar on the back, I just need more practice I guess.
     
  11. hotrod406

    hotrod406 Formula Junior

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    OK, I used 16g (.060) on the sets I made so it was a bit easier. Definitely better to start on the easy side, that's what I did too.
     
  12. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    I might try the mig. It's pretty easy to get a cold tack with a mig then I can grind it off when I put some propper tig welds on.

    While I was at the hardware store buying fittings I realized they certainly do carry methanol…it comes in a bottles labeled “gas line antifreeze or “dry gas” when you select the $1.99 bottle instead of the $2.99 bottle which is isopropyl alcohol. I should be all set to weld to night.
     
  13. hotrod406

    hotrod406 Formula Junior

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    The mig would probably work too. Then you can hold them in the car and tack rather than trying to match the tubes up on the bench and hoping your marks are good.

    I was going to suggest windshield washer solution but I don't think it's 100% meth.
     
  14. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    That was my first plan for the easy to hold reason and I got my mig back from my buddy who'd borrowed it…but for some reason went with the tig, I’m not sure why I changed plans....I guess becasue I welded to the flange first and then just stuck with the tig.

    I ordered a quart from mcmaster first thing this morning but it’s coming from Chicago so it will take a couple days which is why I got thinking about where else to find methanol. I’m just going to mix up a little bit of flux tonight and see how it goes…. just incase the dry-gas isn’t 100% methanol
     
  15. ramosel

    ramosel Formula 3

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    Be sure those products don't have any other ingredients besides the alcohol!!

    Rick
     
  16. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    That's why I'm only going to mix a little to try....because I'm only pretty sure.
     
  17. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #2792 mk e, Nov 4, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  18. vincent355

    vincent355 F1 Veteran
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    Looking tidy!
     
  19. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    I wish I could weld like that.
     
  20. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mark- Next time you need methyl alcohol, try a large pharmacy.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  21. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    I would have never thought to look at a pharmacy. Methyl alcohol is pretty poisonous stuff, what on earth would they use it for?
     
  22. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

    Jun 7, 2007
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    Mark,

    Wish I had your skills; great stuff.

    You better start thinking about cutting some ducts a la 208 Turbo in the lower panels in front of the rear wheels for some extra engine bay cooling. It's going to be mighty hot in there.
     
  23. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    It’s often just a question of practice. Buy a welder and start welding stuff and know you will get better. I very honestly look at my welds to this day and wish I could weld properly.

    Last night looking at this 1st header I was thinking I should have started on the front header that no one would ever see instead of the rear one that is right there when I open the deck lid. I must have had to re-grind the tungsten 100 times last night. I was blaming it on not being able to see because the lens in my helmet is too dark for this low power work. The truth is I’m just out of practice…..but I just ordered a new helmet.
     
  24. 308nut

    308nut Formula 3
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    Yep this was my car, I owned it for 4 years, had lots of memories with that car, drove the hell out of it. I'll see if I can find some old pictures.


    Wade
    www.308qvregister.com
    www.sportclassiccomp.com
     
  25. ramosel

    ramosel Formula 3

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    Most of us wish we could weld as poorly as you...

    You're doing a great job. My GF loves to go to museums and art galleries... boring. But I could look at this kind of ART all day, every day. I'm only bummed cuz I don't get to come hang out in your garage and watch.

    Rick
     

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