Need Help (Challenge Stradale related)

The rear bumper has been painted, so has the front. I've come across a few Ferraris in my life and pretty much all of them have had some paintwork done (if they have been driven); especially the front bumpers, hood and fenders. Anyone using the excuse that a bumper has been painted to pass on a car will never buy one. This car has Tubi hyper flow cats that were installed by the dealer and there is service on it. Yes, the service is not exactly as per the maintenance book but finding a car that is is like chasing a white elephant.

That's why do you don't own it.

The car is being offered with a fresh belt/oil/fluid service, what could be better than that? I'd feel better buying a car that has a fresh service than one that was done prior (not that there's anything wrong with that either). The car has had more than one oil change. It has 9,000 Km on it; it wasn't driven. I'd understand the concern if it was driven 9,000 Km with the same oil or sat for ten years but come on! Does oil decompose in a stationary Ferrari differently from other cars? Is there something in Ferrari engine materials that causes synthetic oil to break down faster than other makes by merely being in contact with it?

How much value does a missed oil service subtract from a clean car that hasn't been driven, really? Keep in mind we're talking about synthetic oil and months, years, not decades.

It's funny how many people find excuses not to buy cars. Here's a scenario; I know of a Canadian Stradale with 0 Km on it, serviced yearly as per the maintenance booklet. No excuses for a serious buyer not to buy that one. What's it worth?

 

Well I can assure you that if the car was worth buying I would own it, let me educate you on Ferrari ownership. For one Ferrari gear boxes and engines run at extreme temperatures requiring the gear box fluid to be changed at more frequent intervals. Also fluids degrade with use and yes TIME!!!!!!! Please can any service shop chime in and tell this clown that fluids can not last 5 ****ing years. The car has been modified, the original cats were changed for hyperflows, this is great, but remember this a collectable car needs to have all it's original parts, these cats cost $9,000 to replace. The front and rear bumpers were re-sprayed, the the job done was sub-par. They need to be re-done by a qualified Ferrari shop. The front drivers fender has had a blow in repair, not a big deal, but can't be good either. Ferrari's are like women it you do not take care of them they turn on you. Ferrari are high performance machines that require a certain level of service, if not done, who knows what damage has beed done, only a PPI will Tell, I never got to the PPI stage, because I found enough REAL excuses not to buy the car. Do you own a Ferrari, do not not understand that maintenance is key on these cars.

 

You're right; I know nothing about Ferraris. Please teach me more.

 

I apoligize, I guess I was wrong, lets buy a ferrari drive it for five years and change the oil once. forget about the gear box oil that is probably burnt, the brake fluid that is full of water, the timing belts that are ready to snap. Oh yes, lets not keep proper records, change parts and ask top dollar when we sell it.

Don't take my advice, if this car was worth buying someone would have snapped it up by down. Why has it been for sale for almost two years.

 

After not posting for 2 1/2 years the guns come out blazing.

 

The only issue with the car in quesiton is the price.

Lets face it, its only 5 yrs old...and unless you plan to keep the car for life, finding a ferrari with a yearly oil change is almost impossible....i have 60,000kms on my 86 TR and every record and bill since 1986...i think its worth 120 grand...but the reality is everyone would say SO WHAT...its market value is 60K CDN..oh, i saw one on ebay for 40 grand in the US with less mileage...yet that car is dead....but everyone would call me nuts...so as i say ...GO FIND YOUR OWN !!! and good luck ...im keeping it.

If this CS was priced right, it would find a buyer...as a matter of fact, its red/blk, if priced right, it would be in my garage already and would never be for sale again

Again the only real issue with this car is the price...

PS..if this car has had a recent service were the variators changed on it as the belts and tensioners ? thats what i would want to know....and i want to see the INVOICE with the GST and PST

 

I agree, the car needs a major service including belts and all the other items listed above. We all know what it costs to repair these cars and get them right. I think it someone would invest some $$$$ into this poor car it would find a new home.

 

I find it amazing that so many "experts" know so much but in reality
so little about this car,why bad mouth a car when you don't like the service
records,without an inspection you know nothing,brake fluid full of water,belts about
to snap I doubt it.Due for a service yes,if you don't like the bumper either factor it
into your offer or not.WFC is one of the most reputable places around and I've found
alway's easy to work with.

 

I am just stating the facts that I know.......if the price was right and the car was right someone would have bought the car, it has know been for sale for over one year, the car didn't meet my needs so I didn't buy it. It is a cdn CS at the right price someone will buy it

GOOD LUCK!

 

No...i think your missing the point....in the last few yrs people are starting to wake up...a $40,000 invoice will do that for most people.

So, a car like this asking the price for a fully documented car is the cause for concern. Nobody is slamming WFC...they are questioning the car, and rightlyfully so.... have you ever gotten an invoice for a messed up ferrari ??? If you havent, you should try it, i heard its fun.And im not talking about a 10K service bill either, thats childs play

Once someone buys this car that lovely f1 tranny is a joy if an issue...that lovely motor will be fun if the variators werent changed at the service.....

A ferrari is all about service....a fully serviced and documented car should get all the cookies....an non docuemnted car should be HIT HARD.

My ferraris have every bill and record, and warrenty card (yes they are old cars)...you honestly think i would sell my cars for the market value of ebay ??? Especially a 25 yr old car with shotty records ? have fun buying that shiny paint ferrari for 50K...and then within a yr you will another 50 to make it run....it happens all the time.

This CS in question for 9,000kms is listed very close to a well documented car....in my books its 30-45% priced to high....yes just because of the early lack of service, and the immediate paint work on both bumpers. .....couple that in with a tough economy, and a bunch of other super cars on the market you can purchase for less money and go much faster make this car a hard sell.....remember its only a 360....even a if its a 360cs...they still made 1,500 cars world wide of the CS......its not like its a rare car like a fibreglass 308

 

What is the current asking price?

 

I don't know a thing about Ferrari engines, but I know some things about airplanes and airplane engines. An airplane engine starts corroding inside if not flown regularly (best to fly once a week). If stored for a long time, an engine should be pickled. Is that not the case on these cars? I'm sorry but I can't see it being good for a car to sit for a year without moving. The internals on the engine would lose its coating of oil, giving way for rust to inhibit, or is there something drastically different in the way these engines are built?

 

$209,900.00. Actually, I was the one that first recommended that price tag and that's what it ended up being. To each their own I guess. We'll see how it pans out...

Oh really hot shot? Why don't you drag your bald head down here with your credit card and let's put it on paper but ask for me not Tony

No worries North, Tony's a good guy. I also assure you he knows what he is talking about. He may not own one but has been around them longer than most here in the CDN section.

Acon, with all due respect I know we can all discuss this without the name calling. Seriously.

I am trying my best not to get too involved here as this car belongs to my colleague. I don't wanna seem biased or look like the bad guy or whatever. My advice is still to have a PPI done, have the service done and make an offer based on that. I would say that in any case scenario.

 

Here comes another half-assed opinion....

Why doesn't someone just make a damn offer and buy it!? If it goes, it goes, if not....let the next person judge whether the car is worthy or not. If the car's market value is 200k$, then make an offer for $180 and then you have a $20k buffer for any future problems (tranny, belts)? Mind that a 360CS will be worth $125k in 2 years....so you will be losing money regardless. If you are worried, then go buy another 'legit' CS for $225, and in 3 years it will still be worth $125k. Its all a gamble, you gotta be Butch Cassidy in these types of situations!

Its similar to buying a house, of course it might need a furnace, and new landscaping, but if you really want a house in that location you will need to make an offer, and be responsible for any consequences of the purchase.

Understand that you are not buying a Honda Accord, its a 6 yeard old CS, a huge liability for future problems... but right now its a decent price for a great car.

 

I guess the name calling is a little unprofessional but the facts are the facts. Some of the comments made in the above posts really do not make any sense. I am stating the facts that I know on the car. There are real issues with this car that will cost $$$$ to get right, unfortunately for the seller this forum has exposed them. At the end of the day the market will decide what this car is worth, not my comments on the car. My point is that it sat for sale for over a year at $190,000 at Autobugatti and now at WFC for months at $209,900. Gentlemen if the car was worth this money it would be in my garage or someone else's right know. My advice is lower your price or spend the $$$$ to fix the items that I have stated. Educated Ferrari buyers not not what to buy cars with stories, I would rather walk. Fix the car, make it right and maybe you may get your full asking price.

OH YEAH ..... If you read above the 4 aces guy took a few shots at me first.

 

If the 1,800km Stradale was 200K then I would say a 20% premium on top of that for the ZERO km Stradale mentioned earlier.
There are lots of factors that go into the purchase price of a Stradale; service records, color and location all play a role. The US Stradale in yellow/red (not the most popular color combination) has only 3,500 miles and still sits at 169K? waiting for a buyer. Several TdF Blue Stradale models have also been slow to sell. Some buyers only want a Stradale with the 'stripe' applied by the factory. With the change in the Canadian bumper standard rules I think the 'Canadian' Stradale has lost some of it's value especially now that the warranty period is over. Also while nobody seems to want to confirm it I believe the Canadian market Stradale had a different 'heavier' front bumper system than the US market cars. In turn the Euro Stradale had an even lighter bumper system than US market cars.
For some the 430 with chains makes much more sense than the engine out belt service always facing a 360 Stradale owner at regular intervals.
Years ago there was a brand new 512 Boxer that sat for the better part of two years untouched due to 'legal' issues. That car was then auctioned and serviced by the new owner and ran fine after that.
CH

 

I have looked at importing a US CS and i think the bumpers are same, the only difference is the day time running lights, 6.1% duty, exchange rate and importing fees. I believe the cars are identical except for the speedo and lights.

 

Starrboy - The car is so overpriced thats why an offer of even 15% lower starts to sound like an insult, so nobody will put it in, just like your realestate comparisons....if houses are priced to high, you cant find an agent that would bring in a low ball offer..plus you insult the seller....the sellers need to realize themselves....plus some sellers are not always real sellers, but testing waters.

of2worlds - i agree with most of your comments, but the pricing you quoted on the other cars and the one sitting at 169 is not really the new market value. You mention the 430....and its service as being more attractive, i agree with you....the 360/355 will start being a hard sell....just like the TR was not to long ago (5-10)...the service costs on 355s, and 360s now as they come up in age, will make the TR costs seem like a Toyota.

Classic....i dont need to come down with my credit card...i posted the price was 35-45% too high for this car...if you do the math...you can take my offer in if you want...i like this car alot with, or without the stripe...BUT...in a recession, and with alot of 400+ hp cars around from everyone in the car market for 200K i would rather buy a DEAD daytona...or a sweet restored 365BB boxer, or a little dino....but thats me...not slamming the car....i just dont think the price is right for any of these cars listed on autotrader....go look ALot of cars are gonna be doing alot of birthdays at alot of these places for the coming yrs at these prices.....PS...did i mention someone needs to check out the car and give it a thumbs up for me before i buy ........

 

...and the grand prize goes to Starboy!

 

If the bumper is the same on the Canadian market Stradale as the US market Stradale then they were all (North America) built to the Canadian 5 MPH (8 KPH) standard. The F40 was never legal to register for street use in Canada when new because the USA cars were built to meet the 2.5 MPH USA standard and Ferrari would not put the extra work (and weight) into a heavier Canada required 8 KPH bumper standard back then in 1990. I thought there was a parts drawing of the different front bumper systems for the different markets shown here in the past...just what I recall anyway.
CH

 

You're absolutely right. It's not good to let any engine sit for long periods of time without moving. Whether it sits for a year with slightly used oil or sits for a year with brand new oil you're still going to lose that internal "coating". So how does a car become "bad" because it didn't sit with new oil in the tank?

I'm not trying to make a case for neglecting to service your Ferrari or any other vehicle for that matter. Of course maintaining a car regularily is very important, but don't try to tell me that a car is ruined because it has been sitting indoors with the same oil for 2 years. If it sat for 2 years and then was driven for another 2 years or 3-5K Km without being changed one might have reason for concern, but that's not the case here.

 

Thank you. Very well said.

If everyone on this thread was as wise as this gentleman, it wouldn't be as much fun to read, and the gentleman looking to buy the car might actually get some useful advice.

 

unfortunately you're dead wrong. And although ACON and I have "fallen out" over the past couple of weeks I can assure you NO ONE here knows more about that particualr stradale other then maybe the dealer selling it. He and I were in direct contact with the original owner of the vehicle for WEEKS and have all the service records sent to us by him. ACON had a ex-ferrari quebec mechanic take a look at the car although not a full P.P.I a nice look and decided to pass.

However I 100% agree that ANY car should be inspected prior to purchase, and aslong as a detailed inspection was performed including compression tests(can they even do that on that car?) then the buyer knows exactly whats what and can re-adjust their offer based on the results if not happy. I'm sure the car's ok once everyone's complaints are taking care of and the seller is even willing to sell it FRESHLY serviced which means for 3 years the new owner doesn' have to worry about anything except minor maintenence along the way.

and for the record the 1800km's was red/black w/stripe TUBI but with original parts in a box 1 owner orginal Ontario car and was traded in at F.O.O for over $200,000 towards owners 458.

 

James, what was the exact sell price on this car? Please be more specific than "over $200k".

That way we can compare values on this CS and the one in question.

 

don't know all I was told was "over $200,000" but probably not by much. Last I heard it was still for sale although never on their site.